I'd have thought we were comparing the likely consequences of the policies when they are implemented. I don't really know what an a priori "good policy" is, separate from an implementation. The two seem directly connected. I get the idea of good vague concepts being bad when the specifics are implemented, but I don't think that is what you are talking about. If we consider Obamacare with all the thousands of pages of specifics specified, don't I call that policy - those pages all written down - good if it results in good things like better health outcomes when implimented?

Let's test this. I thought it was entirely standard speak to just speak about the policy like "Obamacare is bad because too many people lost their insurance" or whatever where the distinction between the "policy" and the "implementation of the policy" is just one we are not worried about. But let us see how you respond if I ask the question with different phrasing.

What is your view on the implementation of the policy of preventing women from being ordained in the catholic church?

Refusing to comment on a policy by hiding behind the ideal of private enterprise is a cop-out. It is also suspect, as arguments of this ilk is very often used to silently support said discrimination.

Discrimination takes many forms and the most popular one is to hide in otherwise reasonable arguments.

Marcus Borg RIP

Eugene O'Neil's Catholic atheism

http://theweek.com/articles/537638/c...mpaign=twitter

O'Neil's life, not unlike Neitszche , was a great tragedy ; which in and of itself, is the lesson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_O%27Neill

Went to see the humanist celebrant who will be officiating at my wedding next year, interesting humanists are accredited to officiate at weddings in ireland but not the UK where a registrar is required.

In any case after much interesting discussion I've agreed to speak at one of the humanist meetings, not sure of the topic yet but something around ethics without God, am looking forward to it.

This can't be correct. I was discussing this on another forum the other day, a football one funnily enough, and a few people had mentioned having a humanist officiating at their wedding and the costs involved (apparently there is a one off fee but you also have to join the humanist society for a year)

I'm not having to join the humanists but it may be that in the UK you need a registrar instead, unless it's changed, just found this on the humanists website

So they can celebrate but not do the registration, this seems a tad unfair.

Humanist celebrant?

Congratulations on the coming nuptials.

I think you should be married in a large gothic cathedral, complete with full pipe organ music and dancing bears. But that's just me.

Life is not suppose to be fair. You better learn this quick if you want your marriage to survive without becoming a train wreck in the first year. Trust me on this.

One of the reasons I'm being married by a humanist is that the church I belonged to isn't great on second chances for this type of thing and this is not my first time.

I disagree but I have no interest in discussing it with you.

It seems I'm in the only part of the UK that actually allows humanists to conduct weddings.

I always liked the Scots.

My partners cousin and his partner had their civil ceremony in Edinburgh a few years back when Scotland was allowing same sex couples prior to the rest of the UK iirc. Brilliant it was.

Ah, I see. Congratulations are still in order, sincerely.

My one an only wedding was in a park, civil ceremony.

I don't believe you're qualified to provide God's side of things. Nor anyone else for that matter.

Cheers

Tbh I'm glad I can't do the church ceremony again and my partner considers it a relief she can blame my trial run rather than her lack of interest in a church weddings.

We all do well out of it.

I've always said we're the most enlightened and civilised part of the UK


Anyway, congratulations are in order sir.

Cheers! Will drink to that.

dereds: congratulations!

John Grey and the New Atheists

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...e-new-atheists

Congrats Dereds.

Condolulations dereds

Cheers all and hehe DK, this courtship has lasted longer than my previous marriage by some distance though so I think we know what we're getting into.

Wow. You seem like a real downer.