Quote:
Originally Posted by Naked_Rectitude
I haven't felt the need to look at studies on prayer, but I would question any results both positive or negative, once you add an observer and start telling people what and when to pray, it's changes the game.
This seems like special pleading to me, why wouldn't prayer work simply because someone knows you're doing it, after all, public displays of faith through prayer are common and isn't it up to god whether it works or not? Are none of those public prayers working then, or are they in some way compromised by being observed? How do you know that observation or instruction 'changes the game'?
It's a simple fact that no one has been able to show that intercessory prayer has any effect that couldn't be ascribed to causes that aren't divine. In fact, there's nothing to show that prayer has any effect that a placebo couldn't have. Given that the study I linked showed that knowing that you're being prayed for can actually result in increased chance of complications, perhaps the nurse shoudl be disciplined for attempting to provide treatment that could have little effect other then to worsen her patient's condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naked_Rectitude
You keep saying displays of faith, when it's not what I've said. Just faith. God is pleased with faith, IF it takes a display for faith to manifest itself, then so be it, but the display means nothing in it's own right.
Displays, demonstrations, whatever you want to call it, if you're doing it just so god can see that you're faithful (even though he knows better than you do how faithful you are), which is a reason you've given for prayer ITT, then it must mean something to you. It doesn't necessarily mean anything to god though and I think we'd both agree that a god that needs your demonstrations of faith would be somewhat disappointing. If his treatment of you is influenced by your demonstrations of faith, again, this isn't behaviour I'd assign to the kind of god I would want to believe in.