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Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

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Old 01-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #1
craig1120
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Notes on Faith

No faith: Can be recognized by rampant cynicism. Morality imposed on others but not yourself. Adaptation to observed reality - its trend toward chaos - with no trust in ultimate justice. A place of victimhood and resentment in which you feel that if you don’t carry out punishment, then the ‘perpetrator’ will get away with it. No belief in meaningful progress. Reality is zero sum - concerns about sustaining anything beyond individual desires is for suckers. Satiation requires increasing levels of immediate consumption.

Rational faith: Supposed to be the preparation and recovery stage. Characterized by a desire for stability/order often accompanied by a fear of chaos. Desire for approval and acceptance of a group or society in general. Meaningful progress is incremental. Morality is usually solely associated with ethics. A good citizen who will put group considerations over their own. Risk avoidance. Coping mechanisms. Suffering is to be managed.

Irrational faith: The idea that “paradise” is more real or more valid than observed reality (order/good is more true than chaos/evil) and our consciousness plays a central role in its manifestation. Meaningful progress is transformational. In this mindset, there is a vulnerability and exposure as a result of aiming so high - setbacks and failures hurt more. Risk comes with irrationality. Morality is meaningful. Suffering is to be cured. Meaning/truth reveals itself.

Last edited by craig1120; 01-01-2019 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:48 PM   #2
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Re: Notes on Faith

On meaning: When we are seeking meaning, we are avoiding the ‘irrational faith’ mindset. Meaning never needs to be looked for, and if that’s what we are doing, then we are off the path.

Identifying our coping mechanisms can often be necessary in order to get to ‘irrational faith’.
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Old 01-01-2019, 07:03 PM   #3
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Re: Notes on Faith

On problem solving:

No faith - problems are avoided

Rational faith - problems are engaged with if we can see a probable solution

Irrational faith - problems are confronted no matter if a possible solution is known to us
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:03 AM   #4
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Re: Notes on Faith

You forgot to work Hitler into it.... oh, and "... and that child was Albert Einstein!"
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:14 AM   #5
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Re: Notes on Faith

Think it should have been like this:

No faith: Can be recognized by a lack of faith.

Rational faith: Faith based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

Irrational faith: Faith not based on or in accordance with reason or logic.

I did look for meaning in your post until I saw the post about that meaning that I was off the path, which I found quite confusing and promptly stopped thinking about it.

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Old 01-06-2019, 07:53 PM   #6
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Re: Notes on Faith

On inspiration:

Inspiration can be a tool to help us get from rational faith to irrational faith. We should be resourceful with inspiration, but instead the default is to fully consume it for our short term pleasure or to spend it unwisely.

Wisdom is disentangling the feeling of inspiration from the corresponding activity and utilizing it for growth rather than pleasure. The wise person stacks inspiration over time and manages it resourcefully. Then, when the time comes, and the door to irrational faith cracks open, they are ready to seize their opportunity.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:49 AM   #7
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Re: Notes on Faith

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
On inspiration:

Inspiration can be a tool to help us get from rational faith to irrational faith. We should be resourceful with inspiration, but instead the default is to fully consume it for our short term pleasure or to spend it unwisely.

Wisdom is disentangling the feeling of inspiration from the corresponding activity and utilizing it for growth rather than pleasure. The wise person stacks inspiration over time and manages it resourcefully. Then, when the time comes, and the door to irrational faith cracks open, they are ready to seize their opportunity.
'Rational faith' is an impossible ideal. It's not reasonable to believe something without evidence.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:24 PM   #8
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Re: Notes on Faith

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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh View Post
'Rational faith' is an impossible ideal. It's not reasonable to believe something without evidence.
Faith does not necessarily mean to believe something without evidence. That would be the definition of "blind faith."
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:52 PM   #9
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Re: Notes on Faith

On value judgment: Irrational faith means making value judgments on our most fundamental, core beliefs that regulate our emotional stability. We need the conscience and the ‘will’ as the tools to be able to do this which means we need suffering as a trigger for this process. Suffering is not ‘good’ but there is a silver lining if we are willing to act out irrational faith by making value judgments aimed at our foundation.

Until we are able to do this, the status quo remains. The status quo gradually leads to chaos, deterioration, and destruction. Irrational faith aims at and moves toward the ideal.

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Old 01-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #10
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Re: Notes on Faith

We need suffering ... so we can overcome suffering?

What is the "ideal"?

Do you think it is by design that suffering is a mechanism for change toward the "ideal"?
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:14 PM   #11
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Re: Notes on Faith

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We need suffering ... so we can overcome suffering?

What is the "ideal"?

Do you think it is by design that suffering is a mechanism for change toward the "ideal"?
1. I would just say many people have used situational or short-term suffering to overcome some type of chronic suffering.

2. The highest good

3. That’s the way it looks to me, but I’m aware how much that idea can offend people.
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:51 PM   #12
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Re: Notes on Faith

More on value judgment: Less than 1% of our phenomenological experience would be considered inspiring, causing some level of intuitive metaphysical consideration. Mostly we naturally perceive reality to be material, familiar, and rational. As a result, we make rational value judgments to inform how we should act.

Intuitive value judgments involving the conscience can perceive the anomalous experiences of inspiration as more true than the rest of experience. However, the ability to situate ourselves into a position that allows for effective execution of intuitive value judgments requires the masculine part of ourselves which is becoming more and more taboo.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:05 PM   #13
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Re: Notes on Faith

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Originally Posted by lagtight View Post
Faith does not necessarily mean to believe something without evidence. That would be the definition of "blind faith."
There is already a good word for what you're probably referring to: confidence.

The trouble with the term 'faith' is of a bait and switch. After initially declaring "you just need to have faith" you will next hear "don't you have faith in your wife / husband / the chair you're about to sit on / that your car will start?"

The former is [blind] faith, the latter is confidence, and this interlocutor is equivocating the two, whether knowingly or not.

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Old 01-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #14
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Re: Notes on Faith

For me, ‘faith’ is relation to the good at the psychological level. So irrational faith would be love for the good. Rational faith would be maintaining relationship with the good that is valued in your cultural environment. And no faith would be giving up on any relationship with the good and to stop making an effort.

The easiest way to understand what I mean by psychological would be to close your eyes. When we close our eyes, we enter into the psychological realm.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:12 PM   #15
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Re: Notes on Faith

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For me, ‘faith’ is relation to the good at the psychological level.
Ok. So you have a fairly unique definition for 'faith'. Then I'm not sure what this thread is for.

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Old 01-20-2019, 02:40 PM   #16
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Re: Notes on Faith

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Ok. So you have a fairly unique definition for 'faith'. Then I'm not sure what this thread is for.

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It’s likely because ‘Religion, God, and Theology’ is pretty broad and most posters of this forum treat it like NVG while I treat it like a strategy forum.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:22 PM   #17
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Re: Notes on Faith

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Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
It’s likely because ‘Religion, God, and Theology’ is pretty broad and most posters of this forum treat it like NVG while I treat it like a strategy forum.
The way you're going in this thread, I actually think it's more rightly placed in the House of Blogs.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:10 PM   #18
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Re: Notes on Faith

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Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish View Post
There is already a good word for what you're probably referring to: confidence.

The trouble with the term 'faith' is of a bait and switch. After initially declaring "you just need to have faith" you will next hear "don't you have faith in your wife / husband / the chair you're about to sit on / that your car will start?"

The former is [blind] faith, the latter is confidence, and this interlocutor is equivocating the two, whether knowingly or not.

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Well said. I think of faith as being akin to confidence and trust.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:56 AM   #19
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Re: Notes on Faith

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2. The highest good
That's a bit circular. Are we back on the ubermensch thing?
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:36 PM   #20
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Re: Notes on Faith

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That's a bit circular. Are we back on the ubermensch thing?
You are using reason when I'm describing an irrational faith mindset. Highest good = the sustained feeling of perfection. Inspiration, or moments of awe, are invitations to pursue the ideal. Embodied, intuitive.

Reason is like using our vision, but we can't see in the dark. We have to painstakingly feel with our hands. Reason says it doesn't exist because we can't see it. I am speaking to how to get from that narrative to a mindset that allows us to feel around in the dark.
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