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A new cosmic religion for the 21st century A new cosmic religion for the 21st century

01-11-2011 , 04:40 PM
OK let’s face facts, human beings need some kind of religion to inspire them to great things and to prevent them from succumbing to nihilism. If the religions they have aren’t satisfactory they will invent new ones. The problem with our ancestral religions is they are myopic, archaic and obviously absurd. Our understanding of the universe has expanded so far beyond the worldviews of Iron Age tribes that it’s incredible to me that their myths still persist. A basic familiarity with modern astronomy, with its world-destroying asteroids, comets, black holes, supernovae and gamma ray bursts will quickly disabuse you of the idea that there is a God who takes a personal interest in our fate. The universe is clearly an incredibly vast and indifferent void. But what about our need for religion?

After meditating on this problem I may have come up with a solution: a new cosmic religion for the 21st century. My inspirations were people like Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan. The basic idea of this religion is that man is destined to become the ancestors of godlike beings who will spread out to the farthest reaches of the universe, harnessing the energy of entire galaxies and bringing life and intelligence to billions of dead worlds.

This quote by Arthur Clarke captures the spirit of the new cosmic religion:

Quote:
One thing seems certain. Our galaxy is now in the brief springtime of its life—a springtime made glorious by such brilliant blue-white stars as Vega and Sirius, and, on a more humble scale, our own Sun. Not until all these have flamed through their incandescent youth, in a few fleeting billions of years, will the real history of the universe begin.

It will be a history illuminated only by the reds and infrareds of dully glowing stars that would be almost invisible to our eyes; yet the sombre hues of that all-but-eternal universe may be full of colour and beauty to whatever strange beings have adapted to it. They will know that before them lie, not the millions of years in which we measure eras of geology, nor the billions of years which span the past lives of the stars, but years to be counted literally in the trillions.

They will have time enough, in those endless aeons, to attempt all things, and to gather all knowledge. They will be like gods, because no gods imagined by our minds have ever possessed the powers they will command. But for all that, they may envy us, basking in the bright afterglow of creation; for we knew the universe when it was young.
OK, I have quoted one of the prophets and hopefully given you the basic idea of the new cosmic religion; now can anyone suggest a good name for it?

Last edited by mistergrinch; 01-11-2011 at 04:56 PM.
A new cosmic religion for the 21st century Quote
01-11-2011 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
OK, I have quoted one of the prophets and hopefully given you the basic idea of the new cosmic religion; now can anyone suggest a good name for it?
Kurzweilism?
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01-11-2011 , 04:57 PM
AI needs to be mentioned at least once in order for something to qualify as Kurzweilism imo
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01-11-2011 , 05:02 PM
Yeah Kurzweil's Singularitarianism is similar to what I'm proposing, but he seems mostly focused on getting to transhumanity and superintelligence. I'm interested in what happens after that!
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01-11-2011 , 05:03 PM
ftl travel
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01-11-2011 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
OK let’s face facts, human beings need some kind of religion to inspire them to great things and to prevent them from succumbing to nihilism.
no they don't need any kind of religion for inspiration..
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01-11-2011 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gskowal
no they don't need any kind of religion for inspiration..
Hmmm well I totally disagree. Exceptional individuals may be able to deal with the reality of the cosmic void, but humanity as a whole needs myths. Note that I'm talking about religion in the general sense of a system of higher ideals and meaning, not a belief in supernatural gods. The great pyramids, the Mayan temples, the Gothic cathedrals, the Apollo Project and the Hubble Space Telescope are all religiously inspired works. The last two could be thought of as early works of the new cosmic religion. I'm not sure why even the most hardcore atheist would find this objectionable.
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01-11-2011 , 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
The great pyramids, the Mayan temples, the Gothic cathedrals, the Apollo Project and the Hubble Space Telescope are all religiously inspired works. The last two could be thought of as early works of the new cosmic religion. I'm not sure why even the most hardcore atheist would find this objectionable.
Because it's wrong.
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01-11-2011 , 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
OK, I have quoted one of the prophets and hopefully given you the basic idea of the new cosmic religion; now can anyone suggest a good name for it?
I propose confusianism.
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01-11-2011 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
Because it's wrong.
Would you care to elaborate?
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01-11-2011 , 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
Would you care to elaborate?
The Hubble space telescope and the Apollo project were not religiously inspired, nor were they early works of some new religion.

Even if it were true that religion gives meaning and science gives meaning it does not follow that science is a religion. Two things with some traits in common are not necessarily of the same type.
A new cosmic religion for the 21st century Quote
01-11-2011 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
OK let’s face facts, human beings need some kind of religion to inspire them to great things and to prevent them from succumbing to nihilism. If the religions they have aren’t satisfactory they will invent new ones. The problem with our ancestral religions is they are myopic, archaic and obviously absurd. Our understanding of the universe has expanded so far beyond the worldviews of Iron Age tribes that it’s incredible to me that their myths still persist. A basic familiarity with modern astronomy, with its world-destroying asteroids, comets, black holes, supernovae and gamma ray bursts will quickly disabuse you of the idea that there is a God who takes a personal interest in our fate. The universe is clearly an incredibly vast and indifferent void. But what about our need for religion?

After meditating on this problem I may have come up with a solution: a new cosmic religion for the 21st century. My inspirations were people like Arthur C. Clarke and Carl Sagan. The basic idea of this religion is that man is destined to become the ancestors of godlike beings who will spread out to the farthest reaches of the universe, harnessing the energy of entire galaxies and bringing life and intelligence to billions of dead worlds.

This quote by Arthur Clarke captures the spirit of the new cosmic religion:



OK, I have quoted one of the prophets and hopefully given you the basic idea of the new cosmic religion; now can anyone suggest a good name for it?
A new cosmic religion for the 21st century Quote
01-11-2011 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
... now can anyone suggest a good name for it?
Apotheosism.

from wiki:
Apotheosis (from Greek ἀποθεοῦν, apotheoun "to deify", in Latin deificatio, "to make divine") is the exaltation of a subject to divine level.
A new cosmic religion for the 21st century Quote
01-12-2011 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
The Hubble space telescope and the Apollo project were not religiously inspired, nor were they early works of some new religion.

Even if it were true that religion gives meaning and science gives meaning it does not follow that science is a religion. Two things with some traits in common are not necessarily of the same type.
Well Al Einstein may disagree with you:

Quote:
It is therefore easy to see why the churches have always fought science and persecuted its devotees.On the other hand, I maintain that the cosmic religious feeling is the strongest and noblest motive for scientific research. Only those who realize the immense efforts and, above all, the devotion without which pioneer work in theoretical science cannot be achieved are able to grasp the strength of the emotion out of which alone such work, remote as it is from the immediate realities of life, can issue. What a deep conviction of the rationality of the universe and what a yearning to understand, were it but a feeble reflection of the mind revealed in this world, Kepler and Newton must have had to enable them to spend years of solitary labor in disentangling the principles of celestial mechanics! Those whose acquaintance with scientific research is derived chiefly from its practical results easily develop a completely false notion of the mentality of the men who, surrounded by a skeptical world, have shown the way to kindred spirits scattered wide through the world and through the centuries. Only one who has devoted his life to similar ends can have a vivid realization of what has inspired these men and given them the strength to remain true to their purpose in spite of countless failures. It is cosmic religious feeling that gives a man such strength. A contemporary has said, not unjustly, that in this materialistic age of ours the serious scientific workers are the only profoundly religious people
Science is a methodology, religion tells you what you should or shouldn't be doing with that methodology. I'm proposing a religion that scientists can subscribe to. I don't think it's enough to only have a negative vision that says "there's no God and all religions are false". Every civilization needs a positive vision of where it's going and why, and I'm not sure what people like Dawkins have to offer in this regard that can compete with existing religions. This is where transhumanism and my "cosmicism" come in.
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01-12-2011 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
Well Al Einstein may disagree with you:
Yeah but he was a lightweight.
Quote:
Science is a methodology, religion tells you what you should or shouldn't be doing with that methodology. I'm proposing a religion that scientists can subscribe to. I don't think it's enough to only have a negative vision that says "there's no God and all religions are false". Every civilization needs a positive vision of where it's going and why, and I'm not sure what people like Dawkins have to offer in this regard that can compete with existing religions. This is where transhumanism and my "cosmicism" come in.
I'd still go with confusianism, but irrespective - making a new religion is one thing (you may find anthroposophy close to what you're looking for - that was an attempt to direct scientific thinking towards the spiritual). Claiming that science is a religion is false. So is claiming that the Apollo project was religiously inspired. If anything it was political.
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01-12-2011 , 12:46 AM
OK I agree that Apollo had political motivations, but what is the motivation for the Hubble telescope? Why should we care about images of other galaxies? Rationally it's a total waste of resources. Now to we Cosmists (how do you like this name?), observatories and space telescopes are our temples, where we commune with the "divine" cosmos, so the justification is obvious...
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01-12-2011 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
Yeah but he was a lightweight.

I'd still go with confusianism, but irrespective - making a new religion is one thing (you may find anthroposophy close to what you're looking for - that was an attempt to direct scientific thinking towards the spiritual). Claiming that science is a religion is false. So is claiming that the Apollo project was religiously inspired. If anything it was political.
It really don't matter people are stupid and some will listen to whatever he says. And he only has to trick them til they drink the special Jupiter juice.
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01-12-2011 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
OK I agree that Apollo had political motivations, but what is the motivation for the Hubble telescope? Why should we care about images of other galaxies? Rationally it's a total waste of resources.
The motivation is to learn how the universe works. It makes us feel good and might even prove useful. Rationally it's a really good thing to do.
Quote:
Now to we Cosmists (how do you like this name?), observatories and space telescopes are our temples, where we commune with the "divine" cosmos, so the justification is obvious...
After-the-fact rationalisations are not justifications.

Confusing scientific endeavours or findings with pseudoscientific claptrap is counterproductive. You yourself imply (in your first part, quoted above) that without some 'ultimate reason' we shouldn't do science. There is no reason to think this is true, even if you personally struggle to get out of bed in the mornings. Importing unverifiable nonsense into science is a bad idea.
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01-12-2011 , 01:09 AM
Jupiter juice! I like it! OK this is all starting to come together now.

Imagine a Cosmist priest dressed in a black robe with stars and galaxies on it, holding a service in a temple called an "Observatory". Images of astronomical bodies are shown on a huge screen, and a sermon is read which features interesting astronomical information and inspirational words from people like Arthur Clarke and Carl Sagan. Perhaps a clip from "Cosmos" is shown. At the end of the sermon, members of the congregation come up to the front to drink Jupiter juice and enter a mock spaceship that symbolically takes them to the stars.

That's all I have so far, what do you folks think?

Last edited by mistergrinch; 01-12-2011 at 01:21 AM.
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01-12-2011 , 01:10 AM
Your new religion is missing both the ritual and voodoo elements. Since it is so deficient I propose naming it Ralph.
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01-12-2011 , 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergrinch
Hmmm well I totally disagree. Exceptional individuals may be able to deal with the reality of the cosmic void, but humanity as a whole needs myths. Note that I'm talking about religion in the general sense of a system of higher ideals and meaning, not a belief in supernatural gods. The great pyramids, the Mayan temples, the Gothic cathedrals, the Apollo Project and the Hubble Space Telescope are all religiously inspired works. The last two could be thought of as early works of the new cosmic religion. I'm not sure why even the most hardcore atheist would find this objectionable.
Can you give me names of any big projects being developed today in the name of religion?
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01-12-2011 , 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gskowal
Can you give me names of any big projects being developed today in the name of religion?
Yes.
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01-12-2011 , 01:50 AM
Oh one more thing; this video would be watched and sung along with at every Cosmist service:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc

"A still more glorious dawn awaits – not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise, a morning filled with 400 billion suns – the rising of the Milky Way"
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01-12-2011 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny
The motivation is to learn how the universe works. It makes us feel good and might even prove useful. Rationally it's a really good thing to do.

After-the-fact rationalisations are not justifications.

Confusing scientific endeavours or findings with pseudoscientific claptrap is counterproductive. You yourself imply (in your first part, quoted above) that without some 'ultimate reason' we shouldn't do science. There is no reason to think this is true, even if you personally struggle to get out of bed in the mornings. Importing unverifiable nonsense into science is a bad idea.
So you're not going to reply to this mistergrinch? Shocking. Truly shocking.

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01-12-2011 , 02:07 AM
Dude I'm on your side. Besides, we are orbiting one of at least 10 billion trillion stars in a universe that is more than 15 billion years old and may go on forever, so it's not clear that this debate is very significant at this particular place and time.
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