I will describe why I don't believe in God - I will write down my thought process, my feelings towards this issue ... most of the things that go on in my head that I am aware of.

Then maybe you can give me some concrete suggestions about what can I change to start belieiving.

I'm not going to pretend that I think you can actually transform me into believer nor do I have any desire to be transformed, the point of this thread is to see what is there about my reasoning, feelings etc. that you consider to be wrong or harmful (towards myself) and to see if you have some method that a person with a mindset like me can use to change his perspective on the concept of God.

My history is such that I haven't been raised in a religous environment. My parents and my grandparents are all atheists. When I went to school we have never talked about religion in a sense that what religion says is true. We only talked about it in a historical context and once or twice we read some short excerpt of the Bible in literature class. There weren't any TV shows or radio broadcast about God in my country (Yugoslavia) when I was child, or at least I was not aware of them being. We have lived in a communism until not so long ago, and although it was pretty mild communism compared to most ofthers, it was still somehow considered a shame to be religious, so most people didn't talked proudly about their faith etc.

To this day, this have changed to some extent, but religion is still not nearly such an open thing here as it is for example in U.S (in a sense, that it is still not considered to be a virtue by the majority and that those who are religious mostly keep this as a private thing and try not to talk about it much).

So this are the external circumstances that I consider to be an important cause why I don't believe in a God. I was simply never subjected to it in a way, that I would feel the need to start believing in it, or to have a feeling that there is some truth about it or developing a feeling of "love towards God" etc. There was never a point in my life when I was afraid that I would go to hell if I done something wrong.

The only moments where I remember thinking about God more structuraly, were when I was occasionally joking about it with my family, mostly with my sister - this was sincere joking in a sense, that it was really funny to us, why anybody would believe in such absurdities. One thing that I also remember was that I really considered a character of God to be evil, because of the concept of hell.

Now, I am 24 years old and my feeling towards God haven't changed by smallest. I still don't believe in it and I honestly don't imagine how I could. Besides living in a basically religion-less environment, I never had any personal experiences, that led me to believe that maybe God exists. When I read Bible when I was older, I don't remember any thought coming into my head that would say: "this might be something more than a tale". When I read posts of religious people on this forum, I usually experience some of these feelings:
- feeling that they are stupid,
- feeling that they believe stupid things
- feelings of angry, because they are stupid/believe stupid things

But I've never experienced feelings, that there might be some truth to what they say.

So whenever I happen to think about the concept of God and the Bible, I always have these same feelings. I can't imagine a way to change those feelings, because I don't have a desire to change these feelings. I can't "look into my heart and find God" because I don't have any desire to look into my heart and find god - I would have a desire too look for it, if I wasn't 100% sure that I wouldn't find it. The "problem" as you can see is that I seem to be not able to find God rationally, because whenever I think about it, it doesn't make sense and I can't find God emotionally, becuase I never had any emotions towards him. I can't even trick myself into believing into it, because I don't have motivation to do so. I would have motivation if I believed that tricking myself into believing would be helpful to me, but I don't believe that.

***

I could probably continue on writing, bu I hope I've sufficiently expressed my history and what is going on in my head when I think about the concept of God. I hope that you can at least understand my thoughts if not partially identify with them - not in relation to your view towards God, but maybe in relation to your views towards some other things. If there is something more you would like to now about how I experience the reality, I would be pleased to answer.

What I want from you is, as said, that you identify thought processes that are wrong and suggest what can be done, to change them into right. I would like to state once again, I am not trying to fool you into believing that you can somehow transform me - both you and I know this is practically impossible - nor do I have any desire to be transformed. What I want from this thread is to observe what methods do you think are availible, for a person like me, to change some thought processes, that you consider harmful.

Another question is: If I were to die today and God existed, I would be judged and sent into hell (as I understand situation, maybe I understand it wrong?). But I sincerely don't see a single point in my life where it was possible for me, given circumstances and mental state that developed in my head, to start believing. Do you think you can point towards some of my thought processes that were (or are) my fault and what could I have done to think differently?

Step 1: Bang your head against the wall a few dozen times. Hard.

inb4 "you haven't really tried" or "you need to have the desire to know/love God".

I've seen this on the forum a few times were christians say the Bible is to be read as if it is true and truely seeking to believe in God.

As someone not really exposed to organized religion how do you think of God? For instance organized relgion will tell you God is all knowing and the creator of everything. But if you think about it...being all knowing and the creator of everything is kind of a contradiction. How can you know about something unless it it already exists(even as a concept)?. How can you create a concept unless you already know what concept it is you are creating?

Does that make sense?

Hm, I am not completely sure if I understood you correctly, but yes, it looks like a contradiction if we assume that these concepts you are talking about aren't somehow considered as a part of God (and thus eternal).

But it is not contradiction, if these concepts have been always ingrained in " God's brain" and therefore don't count as a creation. I would say that only when God decides to make something based on those eternal concepts that are part of him, does that qualify for creation.

Probably missed the point, you were trying to convey?

***

The concept of the God as a creator of everything has never seemed particularly internally contradictorial to me. I can easily imagine in my mind something called God creating world and creatures.

Some concepts that I find hard/impossible to comprehend are free will and for example concept of God as being good in a relationship with existence of hell

I don't think you're doing anything wrong (my background is similar to yours, although religion was more openly/commonly practised in Australia when I was growing up than in your country by the sounds of it).

I think the only rational grounds (and even then I'm not so sure any more that it's possible to have a rational basis for faith) for belief in God is personal revelation and if it hasnt happened to you yet then I think belief is irrational.

Neither do I.

But I am clearly doing it wrong if we assume that God exists and he will punish me if I don't believe in it.

Under that assumption, I would like to find the answer what could a person like me do, to not be wrong.

If you have the will to continue believing as you now believe, there probably aren't any practically available methods of changing your mind.

Yeah, I agree with you.

But under the assumption that christian God exists, I must have had the power to do something in my life differently than what I did, something that would change me into believer. I don't know what this is and that's why I am asking Christians to help me identify problematic choices that I made and suggest how I could have acted differently.

The only thing you can do is look for logical reasons to change your belief.

+1

I would start by reading the Bible just to make sure that I knew exactly what it was that I was refusing to believe. That seems like a logical step in the decision-making process.

I already have read Bible:

my bad -- I thought you had read snippets of it

You may of read it, but it is pretty obvious you didn't put any effort towards living how it says you should live. That is why you haven't seen. In your own words, you have no desire to see.

Well if you are really worried about your soul then you better start praying imo.

Or do what most christians do practice the religion but pick what rules to follow and whats rules to ignore. And always say sorry for the bad **** you do everynight incase you die in your sleep.

Nahhh. Then he would have to read all of the other holy texts, too.

I would have a desire to see, if I believed there is something to see.

How can a person like me start believing there is something to see?

(I admit I didn't put any effort towards living how the Bible says I should live. I didn't feel any desire to do so.

How can a person like me start developing a desire to start living how the Bible says I should live?)

That's the problem (under the assumption that God exists) - I am not worried about my soul.

If I was, I would already believe.

This is something you have to ask yourself.

But I don't have a desire to ask myself how can a person like me start developing a desire to start living how the Bible says I should live.

How can I develop desire for such a thing?

(It might seem that I am making fun of you, but I am just trying to be rigorous in showing my mental processes)

I suggest you investigate the various theistic arguments. I believe theism is the only rational worldview, that non-theistic worldviews reduce to absurdity, and this can be logically demonstrated.

Are there any?

I thought there were only arguments for deism, and that theistic arguments all boil down to the circularity of trusting a revealed source (e.g. the Bible) about its own validity.

OK, this might be interesting - I will do so.

gogogogogo!!!!!