My challenge to all atheists - Page 4 - Religion, God, and Theology

Take away just one of the "evolved" parts of the eye--let's say the retina--and what do you have? An organ that can see? Hardly! Subtract the lens, or the cornea. Then put the retina back. Could the eye see? Never! It must be complete or it won't function.

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01-23-2011 , 09:14 AM

#77

bunny

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Why didn't anyone think of that? You're gonna be famous!

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01-23-2011 , 09:27 AM

#78

demoneyez

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Typical athiest response, lolz

Start with a completely developed, fully functioning eye (the only kind that has ever been found!) and work backward a couple of evolutionary steps and you will see why Darwin was so candid.

Last edited by demoneyez; 01-23-2011 at 09:38 AM.

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01-23-2011 , 09:42 AM

#79

demoneyez

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By what reasoning or logic, would an eyeless creature begin a hundred-million-year project of forming an eye which would be of no use to it whatsoever until the hundred million years were over? Did these microscopic animals think they were developing something that would be useful after a period of time of which even humans cannot even begin to conceive? And how many more million years for a fish eye to evolve to be useful out of water

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01-23-2011 , 10:36 AM

#80

Brons

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

The fact that you post this actually reinforces the fact that you don't understand evolution.

You think of evolution as gigantic changes that just happen overnight. Day 1 creatures have no eyes, day 2 all creatures have 'modern' eyes. This is obviously not true and no biologist/etc/etc has ever said that the human eye spontaneously evolved in a single day.

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01-23-2011 , 12:29 PM

#81

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Take away just one of the "evolved" parts of the eye--let's say the retina--and what do you have?

A demon eye? (EDIT: though of course your name could be de moneyez and not demon eyez, or maybe even de money ez)

Anyway, I worked with these some time ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planarian
They have eyespots only, basically just a clumping of photoreceptors.

You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocellus#Ocelli

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01-23-2011 , 12:34 PM

#82

ganstaman

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This is nice too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

Especially:

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01-23-2011 , 01:44 PM

#83

Black Hat

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The brilliant scientists of the world still have yet to explain where matter and energy came from in the first place. How can you deny that there was a moment of "creation".

And I love how some of you think just because you're not educated with a college degree you must be an idiot and a fool. I've got a psychologist tested IQ of 125 which is in the top 13 percentile but WE, I don't throw it in the face of everybody. The mean IQ of a college grad is 105, which interestingly is about average for the general public. Sorry to break it to you guys but common sense is something that can't be taught.

Last edited by Black Hat; 01-23-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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01-23-2011 , 01:55 PM

#84

CompleteDegen

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Are you a troll, or Kirk Cameron's 2p2 sn? Seriously, a modicum of research could answer most of your pathetically pedestrian and ignorant objections. This is why many of us atheists/agnostics can't take you theists seriously. You raise ignorant arguments with zero effort on your own part to understand information that is available to you. Does the Bible tell you intelligence and education is bad? Are you actively trying to embarrass the entire theist population? Because, right now, I'm embarrassed for you.

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01-23-2011 , 02:23 PM

#85

demoneyez

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for an athiest, why do you even care what i think? It's to bad that athiesm gets in the way of sceince.

Let me ask you a question. What forces you to act the way you do? Not what persuades you. What forces you.

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01-23-2011 , 02:41 PM

#86

G1982

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Originally Posted by pokerjunky

The brilliant scientists of the world still have yet to explain where matter and energy came from in the first place. How can you deny that there was a moment of "creation".

For a start this is off topic as the thread is about evolution, secondly I doubt it will ever be the case that science expands to the extent that there is nothing "brilliant scientists" do not know and theists will continue to use the gaps in our knowledge as evidence for a God.

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And I love how some of you think just because you're not educated with a college degree you must be an idiot and a fool. I've got a psychologist tested IQ of 125 which is in the top 13 percentile but WE, I don't throw it in the face of everybody. The mean IQ of a college grad is 105, which interestingly is about average for the general public. Sorry to break it to you guys but common sense is something that can't be taught

"Common sense" is not a perfect diviner of truth. Have you considered the Monty Hall problem, for example? If not, I am sure with an IQ of 125, you are able to think of at least one counter-intuitive problem.

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01-23-2011 , 02:46 PM

#87

G1982

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

It's to bad that athiesm gets in the way of sceince.

This is painful (and not just because of the spelling). Scientists have been persecuted by theists throughout history (the rise of creationism being the most recent example, Gallileo being the most well known example). Please give any example of atheists restricting science.

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01-23-2011 , 03:01 PM

#88

Splendour

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Originally Posted by G1982

This is an example of the extremist thinking that constantly goes on in this forum.

Without the rise of monotheism there's a good chance there would be no rise of science.

Monotheism made way for science by replacing polytheism.

You can read up on it if you don't believe me. Polytheism was a greater obstacle to science than monotheism ever was.

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01-23-2011 , 03:03 PM

#89

demoneyez

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Atheism leaves opened unanswered questions that press on the human heart.

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01-23-2011 , 03:30 PM

#90

...................

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Originally Posted by Splendour

Wait...your argument is that theism isn't bad for science because there's even worse forms of theism for science?

:Scratches head:

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01-23-2011 , 06:00 PM

#91

G1982

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Atheism leaves opened unanswered questions that press on the human heart.

Even if this were true, I'd prefer to have no answer than one which is incorrect.

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01-23-2011 , 06:05 PM

#92

CompleteDegen

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Originally Posted by Splendour

You're hilarious. Perhaps you could get your history education from an actual institution of learning and not from the church, unless you're referring to the scientific contribution from the church that witches would float.

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01-23-2011 , 06:07 PM

#93

CompleteDegen

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Atheism leaves opened unanswered questions that press on the human heart.

Your appeal to ignorance solves nothing either. What use is it to fill an unanswered question with myths?

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01-23-2011 , 06:11 PM

#94

BASaint

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Originally Posted by Splendour

qflol

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01-23-2011 , 06:26 PM

#95

bunny

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Quote:

Originally Posted by demoneyez

Typical athiest response, lolz

I'm not an atheist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demoneyez

Start with a completely developed, fully functioning eye (the only kind that has ever been found!) and work backward a couple of evolutionary steps and you will see why Darwin was so candid.

This is incorrect - there are many examples of proto-eyes. There are far better arguments against evolution, but you have to actually understand it before you can make them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demoneyez

By what reasoning or logic, would an eyeless creature begin a hundred-million-year project of forming an eye which would be of no use to it whatsoever until the hundred million years were over?

Chance - but if it wasn't any use it wouldn't have been selected for.

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Did these microscopic animals think they were developing something that would be useful after a period of time of which even humans cannot even begin to conceive?

No.

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And how many more million years for a fish eye to evolve to be useful out of water

You must be a fake account - you've posted half a dozen traditional creationist arguments, without any follow up and with no understanding of the issues. I struggle to see the humor, but imo you are doing damage - there are foolish people who will read what you write and feel justified in their rejection (sight unseen) of evolution.

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01-23-2011 , 06:34 PM

#96

demoneyez

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Originally Posted by CompleteDegen

Your appeal to ignorance solves nothing either. What use is it to fill an unanswered question with myths?

Why is the universe here? What is the nature of a biological organism? What is life? What is the origin of life? What is the destiny of life? What is the nature of reality? Is there such a thing as reality? What is the nature of the universe? Have we made any progress understainding the origin of the universe? What is the end of the universe? What is human reason? What is human purpose? What is love?

None of these questions do we have a clue. something to think about.

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01-23-2011 , 06:41 PM

#97

batair

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

Not having a clue about these questions is more of a problem for the people who answer them then people who say they dont have the answers. Something to think about.

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01-23-2011 , 06:42 PM

#98

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by demoneyez

There's nothing to research. Why waste my time researching something that never happened? We all know deep down inside that humans were placed on earth.

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Originally Posted by Malcolm X

There are thousands and thousands of research papers on the subject and I imagine more people believe in evolution compared to others.

If you're gonna troll this thread can you please stop posting or can Jib ban you. Also, if you look back at some threads people who don't agree with evolution often take part in debates and certainly help you look at things from different angles. If you're not going to try and do this then please go away.

As a theist (if that matters to you) I would say that you have a lot to learn about evolution. Also as bunny and Madnak pointed out, there is still much we have to learn about evolution and the mechanisms of evolution so it is way too premature to say that it (as in large scale changes ie bacterium to baboon) could not have happened.

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01-23-2011 , 06:46 PM

#99

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by bunny

This is incorrect - there are many examples of proto-eyes. There are far better arguments against evolution, but you have to actually understand it before you can make them.

Not to say that you are wrong, but the only "examples" that I have seen of this has been examples of a degradation of an eye. In other words an eye that once function but evolved into an non functioning eye. Wasn't that the case with the fish in the dark caves?