Yeah especially Turkey.

Turkey is very different from the rest of the Muslim world, however. Ever since the days of Kemal Atatuerk (father of the Turks), Turkey has striven to become more like Europe. It it is a laicistic country. All of its officials, judges, etc. are elected. For decades upon decades Turkish intellectuals sent their children to Europe to study. Up until recently, wearing a headscarf was forbidden in any public place including schools and government buildings. Currently, Turkey is trying to join the European Union.

I think this should be taken into consideration when comparing Turkey's percentages to the other countries.

Originally Posted by rizeagainst
there were others who had a more polite ways of saying that we should allow Muslims to continue killing and discriminating against whomever they please.

I think our culture has become so hyper sensitive to the idea of racism/sexism, forms of discrimination and resulting violence, that we have actually become afraid to stand up against it when we see it for fear of being labeled discriminatory ourselves. But why should we fear this? Again, we're we being racist when we bombed and sent soldiers to war against nazis in WW2? Obviously, it would be absurd to say such a thing. The true "racists" or "bigots" were the nazis.

While some peripheral variables are different, it's much the same with regards to Muslims who wish to discriminate against women and slaughter apostates and adulterers. The problem is we live in a society today that no longer has the courage to own up to such horrible truths. It is easier to hide behind our news desks and pretend nothing is wrong and then walk across the street and get a nice lunch. We do not even have the courage to verbally take on and shame such acts sponsored and initiated by Islam, as evidenced by the thread above, and the way in which conversations are formed about Islam in our culture and on our TVs. Is largely a philosophy of being passive and accepting of Islams "different" ways of life.

I'm accepting of many different ways of life that I do not adhere to. But when those "differences" in the way that their society gets run includes discrimination and belittling of women, slaughtering anyone who wishes to disassociate from the state sponsored faith, well I draw the line. Call me crazy.

It is time to own up to the disturbing truth about Islamic sponsored violence and stop passively ignoring it under the guise of "well we should accept everyone, even if they enjoy killing people for switching religions." I'm not going to accept that, and we should not accept Islam's treatment of apostates, women, and whomever else they like to discriminate against anymore than the world should have tolerated the way Nazis ran their society.

The sane world banded together and refused to accept that Nazis throwing Jews into ovens was going to continue. We should do the same for Muslims using the guillotine on apostates. But why don't we? Why doesn't the equally horrendous treatment that Muslims bestow on apostates get treated with the same sort of shame that a Nazi in the 21st century would?


>>>>>>>>>> NICE BS BRO, here's my reply

Islam is totally against violance, killing or terrorist, I am muslim and egyptian and i just didnt like your thread, cuz simply u got alot of wrong facts and i have no idea what ur sources are BUT I KNOW THEY R WRONG

"We do not even have the courage to verbally take on and shame such acts sponsored and initiated by Islam" like what???

"well we should accept everyone, even if they enjoy killing people for switching religions." this is not true, except in 1 country... i will get back to that later...

""Call me crazy."" no am not gona, but am going to ask you to make sure you have the correct facts before trying to sound like a hero and tell everyone stuff that they don't know... and btw they don't know it cuz it aint true

To sum up, Most muslim countries but am going to talk about egypt because this is where i currently live.. In egypt its AGAINST the law to do any of the stuff u mentioned on ur chart for example cut the theif hand, or be stoned to death, so ur 87% n idk what... is actually 0%, nice job with the chat tho :P

Anyone that wants to make sure the charts you supplied are actually FAKE can just use google I have no idea why you or anyone else would make these stuff up but am sure you have a good reason

Finally, Just in order to saw everything in this reply... the ONLY country that uses "stone to death", cut theifs hands, and you would be killed if you change your religion from islam to anything else is "Saudi Arabia" which is SHOCKER cuz it aint on your list...

Ya, a couple of more points also all regarding egypt because i won't like to say something then be proven wrong...

In egypt there is no penalty for adultery, In fact i like with my gf at my house.. Its 100% legal (am not saying its not against islam rules, but am saying as a country's law issue). Also people just do time in egypt, just like any other country, except for murder which in some cases the penalty would be "hanging to dealth"...

I have no idea how you made all these %s n statistics on Egypt... seriously bro, you can almost do anything in egypt without getting in any kind of trouble so CHILL!!

rizeagainst was quoting from the 2010 Pew Global Attitudes Project polls.

Is that really so?

fyp, Obama

Sorry, what?

Or, in slow-motion:

to wit: Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda

ie, 'The Middle East'

Aaand white-knuckled righteous indignation in 3,2,1-

Look! Look at the thing you said is happening! IT'S HAPPENING! What you have to say now, mister smart guy?

You're conflating the percentage of a population generally well-disposed to Hamas and Hezbollah with that percentage prepared to strap themselves into a hi-ex vest in a crowded area and pull the cord.

In the 2003 Northern Ireland Assembly elections, Sinn Féin polled 26.2% of the popular vote. One in four voters, in other words, voted for Sinn Féin - SF being the political wing of the Provisional IRA. Were one in four Nationalists terrorists that day? Were they, by virtue of their vote, more likely to be terrorists (than if they'd voted SDLP, for example)?

Crucially, were they Muslims?

That there are differences between the situation in the North and Palestine (and more importantly, in the various other countries from which your figures are drawn) is clear. But the comparison's tempting to me, if only because of background familiarity with the North. So what does it mean to a guy in, we'll say Indonesia, to say "I have a favourable view of Hamas"? If it means anything like what it might mean to a Catholic from Edinburgh to sing Off To Dublin In The Green while getting pissed after a Hibs game, or some "Irish" kid from South Boston to say 'Tiocfaidh ár lá'... that doesn't seem to me to hold too many direct implications.

The more loudly you proclaim yourself the arbiter of reality, the harder it becomes to take you seriously.

I find it interesting to note that it's in the Lebanon - home of Hezbollah - that al-Qaeda shows weakest, and significantly so. I wonder if figures were available for Gaza residents, would that be reflected in their responses also - and whether it is or not, why that is.

Maybe because it didn't achieve anything they can use, and resulted in two largely Muslim countries being invaded, all that?

LOL.

A causal mechanism appears! Surely. Oh, no, it's just more charts of ice-cream sales correlated with rates of death by drowning. Look at those spikes! Enjoy your deadly ice-cream, fools!

And that seems to be more or less how you continue for the rest of the post - 1) Show stats, 2) Claim stats support own view and 3) Crow briefly about how 'everyone' can no longer deny, etc...

You show various problems with the NME and certain predominantly Muslim countries. Problems which, contra your crowing, no-one has denied exist. You claim that Islam is 'obviously' the primary cause of these problems, objections are raised and your response is - what, exactly? To post graphs demonstrating that the problems do too exist - which, again, has not been disputed.

And you just roll from facet to facet of whatever you imagine the people who disagree with you think, ignoring any inconsistencies in your own narrative, such as-



1 in 5 sees a struggle in Jordan, of that 20% most favour 'Modernisers'.



Yet 86% favour death for apostasy. So when you ask:

[/quote]...people who actually want to develop and become technological societies and Muslims. Why do they seem to be mutually exclusive?[/quote]

There you go - they're not; not by your figures, anyway. And of course:

I think the real question is, why so concerned? Shouldn't it come naturally and be welcomed? I mean, they are all Muslims, right? And they're beholden to the ultimate authority of divine instruction, which has all that killy stuff, so... what's their hangup? Serious question. If Islam is so openly and obviously bloodthirsty, and does pretty much nothing but ****** scientific and economic development while baying for the blood of infidels, and is also the first and last word in Middle Eastern political thought, how come they haven't killed us all yet?

I didn't quite catch that, sorry. More seriously, I already had that discussion with luckyme.

Opinions differ on totals, but I can't say I disagree.