Mosque in NY - Page 5 - Religion, God, and Theology

This doesn't work. For one because its not Muslims from a foreign land building the place of worship, its Americans. For two i dont think setting up the mosque is meant to glorify 911 like your statue would do with Hiroshima.

Really? Of all the places to build it?

Of all the days to open it?
9-11-2011 just pops up as a day to open it?

Come on...you know better than that.

08-05-2010 , 05:02 PM

#102

All-In Flynn

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It does seem weird. Other hand, it could be interpreted as a peaceful gesture. Have there been any statements from the people building the thing?

08-05-2010 , 05:05 PM

#103

ganstaman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDiamonds

My point was and is that laws are not always moral nor do they give unlimited rights. the person I was aiming this towards made the argument that these people have a legal right to build the mosque on ground zero and open it on the anniversary of the attacks on the Twin Towers. I then used her/his same stance to show how ridiculous it is to state that if a law provides the right to do something...it may not be the right thing to do.

Even after I pointed out your mistake, you made it again. You are beginning to confuse who has said what in this thread. You quoted me in this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDiamonds

2) You hate it when I use your arguments against you?

But I wasn't the one who claimed that what's legal is right by default. So for the second time, you meant to say something else to someone else.

08-05-2010 , 05:06 PM

#104

ganstaman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDiamonds

Really? Of all the places to build it?

Of all the days to open it?
9-11-2011 just pops up as a day to open it?

Come on...you know better than that.

Yeah, imagine that, building a mosque where Muslims live, on a plot of land that was for sale.

And to open the building when the building is finished! The horror, the horror...

08-05-2010 , 05:06 PM

#105

Autocratic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by All-In Flynn

It does seem weird. Other hand, it could be interpreted as a peaceful gesture. Have there been any statements from the people building the thing?

Here's one:

Quote:

Called Cordoba House, the mosque and center is the brainchild of the American Society for Muslim Advancement. Executive director Daisy Khan insists it's staying put.

"For us, it's a symbol, a platform that will give voice to the silent majority of Muslims who suffer at the hands of extremists. A center will show that Muslims will be part of rebuilding lower Manhattan," said Khan, adding that Cordoba will be open to everyone.

The whole group is rather liberal and pretty clearly not associated with any extremists.

08-05-2010 , 05:09 PM

#106

Autocratic

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A good resource on their opinions from their site:

http://www.asmasociety.org/home/p_press.html

08-05-2010 , 05:09 PM

#107

batair

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDiamonds

Really? Of all the places to build it?

Of all the days to open it?
9-11-2011 just pops up as a day to open it?

Come on...you know better than that.

You dodged my point.

Its nothing like the US building a statue to glorify Hiroshima. Unless your saying the Muslims building it aren't real Americans and they are doing it to glorify 911.

Last edited by batair; 08-05-2010 at 05:19 PM.

08-05-2010 , 05:16 PM

#108

Dying Actors

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ganstaman

Yeah, imagine that, building a mosque where Muslims live, on a plot of land that was for sale.

And to open the building when the building is finished! The horror, the horror...

ya, those are all of the relevant facts in the equation.

08-05-2010 , 05:27 PM

#109

Turn Prophet

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It's not a mosque, and it's not at "Ground Zero" (which is a stupid thing to call it after almost nine years anyway). But it's not media bait like that.

08-05-2010 , 05:32 PM

#110

Autocratic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dying Actors

ya, those are all of the relevant facts in the equation.

Legally they are, of course.

But you're right. It should be mentioned that this is a very moderate/liberal Muslim group with no ties to terrorists that have ever been demonstrated, and has professed the date is intended to signify their stand against terrorism and for the values of moderate Islam.

08-05-2010 , 05:40 PM

#111

Kentucky Buddha

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

It's not a mosque, and it's not at "Ground Zero" (which is a stupid thing to call it after almost nine years anyway). But it's not media bait like that.

Well to be fair they do seem to be preserving the hole in the ground for posterity.

The well intentioned moderate muslims might best reconsider the date. They will win no friends and just enrage those that disagree.

08-05-2010 , 05:48 PM

#112

MelchyBeau

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The ADL has come out against this mosque. I think they have lost their way. A few years ago, they refused to recognize the Armenian Genocide. They are no longer a true civil rights organization.

08-05-2010 , 05:50 PM

#113

Kentucky Buddha

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MelchyBeau

The ADL has come out against this mosque. I think they have lost their way. A few years ago, they refused to recognize the Armenian Genocide. They are no longer a true civil rights organization.

It is sad. It is even sadder that Obama backed off using the language due to an ultimatum from the Turks. We need an airbase there apparently really badly.

08-05-2010 , 05:55 PM

#114

MelchyBeau

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Hey guys, its not like Pope John Paul II held mass in Auschwitz concentration camp, opened a convent near the grounds and then erected a ton of crosses on camp grounds that still stand today. Oh wait...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_cross

08-05-2010 , 06:01 PM

#115

nick_van_exel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MelchyBeau

The ADL has come out against this mosque.

When an entire religion calls for the destruction of Israel and would like to impose Sharia law they should be concerned.

08-05-2010 , 06:12 PM

#116

MelchyBeau

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_van_exel

When an entire religion calls for the destruction of Israel and would like to impose Sharia law they should be concerned.

Ganstaman doesn't seem concerned

08-05-2010 , 06:14 PM

#117

MelchyBeau

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Quote:

A group of Jewish leaders has rallied today in support of the mosque near the World Trade Center.
The Shalom Center representatives say they needed to speak out after the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group that advocates religious freedom, criticized the Cordoba Initiative mosque and cultural center.

"We need this Islamic center to preach love and respect in contrast to those that preach hate and destruction," said Rabbi Richard Jacobs of the Westchester Reform Temple. "Here in this place, just a few yards from horrific pain and loss, let this Islamic center be a beacon of light and hope to our aching world."

“That is why we are here, to open the doors to peace, to dialogue, to affirmation of ‘the one’ that Jews and Muslims and Christians all celebrate,” said Rabbi Arthur Waskow of the Shalom Center.

Those damn jews huh

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/top...of-wtc-mosque/

08-06-2010 , 12:05 AM

#118

loK2thabrain

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aigyptos

Not everything that is legal, is moral, or respectful.

If the local NY council says it's legal, you can have different opinions on morality and respectfulness, I think families of the people that died 9/11 do not really think this is respectful, and I think it is just not reasonable to say that they are bigots and racists etc. etc. because they do not want a giant mosque near Ground Zero.

GIANT MOSQUE IS GIANT

08-06-2010 , 12:56 AM

#119

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ganstaman

Yes, let's preserve the very freedom that the first European settlers to this land came in search of by denying a minority group the right to build a religious building.

Come on, are you that dishonest and blind that you cannot see that the whole purpose of this building is a slap in the face to the US?

Maybe, if its true that they want to dedicate it on the Sept 11, thats even more of a slap in the face, because even if you do not believe it, the whole attack originally was based on religious beliefs from allah believers.

Maybe not all allah believers but, it does not matter.

Just a note, to add to the tip of the iceberg, Sept 11, was the EXACT birth of Jesus Christ, so it goes much deeper than the physical side of things.

Sure, pretty much all Christians still believe some made up Catholic lie that Jesus Christ was born in December but numerous biblical research has been done to prove, astronomically and historically and biblically that the exact birth of Christ was on Sept the 11th....

08-06-2010 , 12:57 AM

#120

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aigyptos

Bad reasoning, you shouldn't take the most extreme possible situation.
By the way, the Imam that is going to preach there seems to be a big person within the Cordoba Initiative.

Bad reasoning, again, there are other reasons why it should bother anyone. And actually, there were a lot of people cheering on 9/11/01, in the Netherlands (where I live) there have been many reports and stories about it. Of course that doesn't mean that ALL muslims cheered.

But my point is, they are subjecting themselves to Allah, and his holy book, the Qur'an. All Muslims thus have to agree 100% with the Qur'an since Allah is infallible and so the Qur'an is too.

Define these 'other arenas' for me, will ya? For me, all Muslims have to agree on the same ideologies that come directly from religious texts.

Your blind also, just like the other guy.

08-06-2010 , 01:00 AM

#121

MelchyBeau

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Quote:

Just a note, to add to the tip of the iceberg, Sept 11, was the EXACT birth of Jesus Christ, so it goes much deeper than the physical side of things.

I'm going to need evidence of this.

08-06-2010 , 01:02 AM

#122

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Completely backwards. It is the conservative populists (and the ADL

) that have argued that we shouldn't allow the Islamic cultural center because it would offend some people (i.e. hurt their feelings). It is liberals (and many conservatives--who really should support this because, as Stephanie Wells noted, it was approved by the local government) who have argued that the fact that some find it offensive doesn't justify interfering with people's right to practice their religion.

Again, completely backwards. You are claiming that we should limit the right of people to freely practice their religion. How is your claim consistent with maintaining freedom?

So how do you propose making Muslim Americans free? By not allowing them to freely practice their religion? Or, are they only able to be free if they convert to Christianity?

Its a spiritual slap in the face by the god of this world (meaning the devil) through his puppets, to the Christians in this country who understand spiritual matters and to those who were killed and to those who had families killed.

No respect from a physical point of view is plain and obvious also.

Maybe some one should set up on all the graves of any relatives who have died of all the people on this forum something that would piss them off.

08-06-2010 , 01:04 AM

#123

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MelchyBeau

I'm going to need evidence of this.

What kind of evidence would you need? A birth certificate?

Spoiler:

Last edited by Pletho; 08-06-2010 at 01:11 AM.

08-06-2010 , 01:06 AM

#124

MelchyBeau

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pletho

What kind of evidence would you need? A birth certificate?

Why do you think it was 9 11 that jesus was born on?

08-06-2010 , 01:09 AM

#125

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MelchyBeau

Why do you think it was 9 11 that jesus was born on?

I do not think, I know.....

The following was taken from here...

Quote:

Sept. 11, 3 B.C. was a Jewish feast day known as Rosh Hashana, which is the Jewish New Year and, according to Hebrew tradition, Rosh Hashana is the time that Adam was created.

Craig Chester, of the Monterey Institute for Research in Astronomy, believes that Sept. 11, 3 B.C. is the actual day Christ was born in Bethlehem. Dr. Ernest L. Martin, in his book, "The Star of Bethlehem: The Star That Astonished the World," also indicated that according to cosmic signs, the birth of Jesus Christ was on Sept. 11, 3 B.C.

Jesus Christ is called the second Adam bibically, it all lines up....

Here is a astronomical scientist even saying so.......

But the real evidence is laid out in the book I suggested and another book called "The Witness of the Stars".

Last edited by Pletho; 08-06-2010 at 01:16 AM.

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