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Old 11-03-2018, 09:25 PM   #1
FellaGaga-52
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Meaning

Human beings need meaning. Gambling and poker chips doesn't qualify. Often this pursuit of the chip chase is away from our actual core truths, away from ourselves. Nothing wrong with playing certainly, nothing wrong with winning money certainly, nothing wrong with loving the game ... but it won't fill the human need for meaning, which so often it is being called on to do, or least, it is being called on to fill the vacuum left by lack of fulfilling life purpose.
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:35 AM   #2
mrcnkwcz
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Re: Meaning

Yep.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:16 AM   #3
Mightyboosh
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Re: Meaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
Human beings need meaning. Gambling and poker chips doesn't qualify. Often this pursuit of the chip chase is away from our actual core truths, away from ourselves. Nothing wrong with playing certainly, nothing wrong with winning money certainly, nothing wrong with loving the game ... but it won't fill the human need for meaning, which so often it is being called on to do, or least, it is being called on to fill the vacuum left by lack of fulfilling life purpose.
Poker won't provide 'meaning'. Got it.

I actually think that there's a poker analogy for everything. In this case, your claim that I might be filling "vacuum left by lack of fulfilling life purpose" is you putting me on the wrong hand.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:43 AM   #4
mrcnkwcz
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by Mightyboosh View Post
Poker won't provide 'meaning'. Got it.

I actually think that there's a poker analogy for everything. In this case, your claim that I might be filling "vacuum left by lack of fulfilling life purpose" is you putting me on the wrong hand.
But your thousands of posts that recapitulate the same points will provide meaning.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:54 PM   #5
El Lobo Gordo
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
Human beings need meaning. Gambling and poker chips doesn't qualify. Often this pursuit of the chip chase is away from our actual core truths, away from ourselves. Nothing wrong with playing certainly, nothing wrong with winning money certainly, nothing wrong with loving the game ... but it won't fill the human need for meaning, which so often it is being called on to do, or least, it is being called on to fill the vacuum left by lack of fulfilling life purpose.
To play poker properly, one must strive to make the best decisions possible given the circumstance the game presents and not fretting or salivating about short term results. True success only manifests itself in the long run.

Poker may not provide you with meaning, but it can provide you with an example of how to lead a proper and forthright life.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:05 PM   #6
nohands
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Re: Meaning

The question is how does one become fulfilled?

I don't think fulfillment comes from achieving our goals or by doing things that we think will be fulfilling to us.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:16 PM   #7
Do0rDoNot
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo View Post
To play poker properly, one must strive to make the best decisions possible given the circumstance the game presents and not fretting or salivating about short term results. True success only manifests itself in the long run.

Poker may not provide you with meaning, but it can provide you with an example of how to lead a proper and forthright life.
Ya and that example is 'dont play poker.'
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Old 01-06-2019, 03:33 AM   #8
El Lobo Gordo
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot View Post
Ya and that example is 'dont play poker.'
Poker has been a blessing to me. It increased my standard of living and helped me understand this world I navigate better.
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:59 PM   #9
Do0rDoNot
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Re: Meaning

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Poker has been a blessing to me. It increased my standard of living and helped me understand this world I navigate better.
Dealing cocaine would probably do both of those things too. It doesn't justify dealing cocaine.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:12 AM   #10
Mightyboosh
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by mrcnkwcz View Post
But your thousands of posts that recapitulate the same points will provide meaning.
Doesn't address what I said.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:13 AM   #11
Mightyboosh
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot View Post
Dealing cocaine would probably do both of those things too. It doesn't justify dealing cocaine.
Why would you need to, is there something wrong in that?
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:01 AM   #12
El Lobo Gordo
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot View Post
Dealing cocaine would probably do both of those things too. It doesn't justify dealing cocaine.
Ahh...I get it now. Your against playing poker for money and learning life lessons from it on moral grounds.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:11 PM   #13
Do0rDoNot
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Re: Meaning

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Ahh...I get it now. Your against playing poker for money and learning life lessons from it on moral grounds.
The life lesson I learned from poker was that in order to 'win' at playing poker you have to train yourself to be immoral.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:36 PM   #14
El Lobo Gordo
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot View Post
The life lesson I learned from poker was that in order to 'win' at playing poker you have to train yourself to be immoral.
I'm curious.

What is immoral about making better decisions than your opponent?
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:44 PM   #15
lagtight
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo View Post
I'm curious.

What is immoral about making better decisions than your opponent?
I don't believe that anybody is claiming that "making better decisions that your opponent" is what makes playing poker immoral. The moral issue would be the consequences of the decisions with respect to the well-being of another human being.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:03 PM   #16
craig1120
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by lagtight View Post
I don't believe that anybody is claiming that "making better decisions that your opponent" is what makes playing poker immoral. The moral issue would be the consequences of the decisions with respect to the well-being of another human being.
So the claim is that since the costs of poker are too high for at least some of the losing players, then it is immoral to participate. Is that right? What about if someone asks you to play that you determine could withstand the potential costs of losing were you to play against them - is it still immoral to play?
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:10 PM   #17
lagtight
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Re: Meaning

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Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
So the claim is that since the costs of poker are too high for at least some of the losing players, then it is immoral to participate. Is that right? What about if someone asks you to play that you determine could withstand the potential costs of losing were you to play against them - is it still immoral to play?
Great questions.

I personally don't believe that it is morally wrong to play poker. I was just trying to clarify the issue.
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:51 AM   #18
FellaGaga-52
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Re: Meaning

Card Tricks from Hell (coolers, beats, outright tricks, etc.)

It’s gotten to the point that I’m violently allergic to hold’em. After 150 sessions of run outs from hell, here’s my last several all-ins.

I’m 4-4 vs. A-J on J-4-2 flop. No flush draw, no back door flush draw. He wins all my chips.

I’m J-4 spades vs. J-Q on, again, J-4-2 flop. Turn I pick up a flush draw. He down to 2-outs. 42-2. On both of these hand I showed my neighbor my hand and told him it was zero percent to win.

In each of last two sessions I get an A-K-x flop to my A-K, both times I’m up against three aces. One of them I folded. So they dealt it to me again. (Both hands the 3 aces were shown.)

I have 10-J of spades. Flop is 7-8-9, one spade. One player hangs with me. It comes back door spades. He check-raise shoves on the river and has the nut flush. I was 97%; I was zero %.

Welcome to the table hand: first hand Jd-Js vs. Ad-Jc. Flop is K-Q-10, all diamonds. Why wouldn’t it be? The turn is a 9. I have a straight and open end straight flush draw, heads up, with no win. Here’s a hint at the beauty of the streak: the 9d is exposed in this hand. I have no win heads up with this hand only two taking flop, him a button raiser versus my big blind. Are these real hands??

Flop Q-6-4. I am 6-6 up against Q-8. For the brilliant spot he is in, he is rewarded with the nut full on the 8-Q run out.

Tonight PLO must move table breaks. Sit at hold’em table waiting. First hand I play on button. A-8 of spades. Flop A-8-6. Dude is looking me up like I’m just repping on button, and I know it’s death. He beats me calling me down with A-7.

All sets crushed by flushes and runners. When I flop a draw, zero percent. Last hand tonight: call raise in middle position with Q-9 diamonds. Flop: 6-8-10, with two diamonds. I’m zero percent. Dude fires, I call. I’m fully capable of shipping here as a PLO reg, but i call here.
Turn is a Q. He shoves. At this point, since the queen came, it is obvious he has K-K. I say to my neighbor, “he has kings.” River you don’t even need to hear. He stacks the chips and as I’m leaving for my seat, he says, “What was he calling with on the flop, the queen came on the turn?” My sanity in jeopardy.

I”m Q-J of spades on a J-J-4 flop. Turn is 6. I’m up against blind J-8 off. He knows he’s beat when I ship on turn. He says so out loud. He is rewarded for the call with the nut full.

Dude calls $100 pre with 5-6 off and flops quads.

First hand at new table I have J-9 suited on 9-10-J flop, heads up. Turn is 9. I have to re-buy after one hand.

These hands they’re dealing me that punch up at 80 and 90% on a calculator that are running out at near zero percent. 150 sessions rife with hands just like this. Never seen it. “At trillions to one odds,” I’ve been saying … and “show me some more card tricks.”

To look at these hands is sanity threatening. It’s like every deck, at every table at every casino in my state is stacked against my seat, and against whatever seat I move to. For three years. Dude’s are doing things like flopping top pair, good kicker, betting it all the way down: winner. Regular poker. But I’ve been in freak land. There are some 500 hands like this in last 150 sessions. I flop nut flush draw with gutter and overs, zero percent to beat two deuces. AMAZING.

This is 1/100th of it. I took to saying when I sat down, “Okay, what’s the cooler? Let’s see the card tricks.”

A massive anomaly of poker beats and beatings is not a bad thing in and of itself. It just is. Poker players often rashly hide from their self-concept via the game and their immersion in it. It replaces healthier lifestyle choices and values, or the pursuit of them.

But self-knowledge, self-worth and self-concept are the holy grail of the human experience, and corrupting or subverting this truth with poker chips is enormous folly. This massively anomalous streak woke me up to that rudely. No politenesses were going to suffice. Voila: the ten standard deviation run from hell. The realization: although there isn’t any inherent meaning in the chip chase, as with any facet of life it can be a great teacher.

I sat the other day. Dude draws to gutter 7, no other win, spikes it immediately. The nuts. I whiff two straight/flush draws. I pick up aces, over raise, looked up by 3-5 of diamonds. Flop 2-4-K, I bet he shoves. Notice I have two blockers in the ridiculous situation. But I don’t have any chips left after the hand. Next hand I play I’m A-Q suited versus A-J. He shoves his short stack after I raise him. He flops insta broadway … nuts.

I then played at a table in which 4 players were betting just unrelated to their hand strengths (“strengths” is the only 9-letter one vowel non-technical word in the English language, I think, yo “y” is a vowel, helpful information for some of these lists). They were shoving unrelated to anything … just wanting to shove. Dream game. Playing way under my means, nothing scares me. Luv the game. Never won a hand.

Intense clusters of coolers and beats. There came a point where the hands were like blows to the gut, making me want to puke. It was so effing impossible. I roll out what easily is 90% to be good based on all factors, and the other hand is not released toward the muck … nope, here it comes being rolled out after mine, sure sign of a winner. Made a back door flush the other day, a pretty healthy one, queen high, I bet, fold, fold, fold, one player left … raise. Of course. I’m drilled. When the typically 80 and 90% winning hands go to 1% for three years, an explanation is called for. This: my perceptual field, which is totally different than any conventional idea of “reality,” is witness, not to a “physical” reality, but to a quantum display. Occam’s Razor. What is more likely … there are 200 billion galaxies, or it appears that there are 200 billion galaxies? What is more likely … an actual trillions-to-one run in a physical world … or the mere appearance of it? Our senses mean nothing about anything being “there” or “not there.”; this is established.

Voila again … poker, and, more specifically, impossible results in poker, can be a great teacher. It’s made a different student out of me.
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