One of the basic premises of Christianity is that the world you see is largely an inversion of reality.

In layman's terms, it is that we live in a Matrix, of sorts because Satan is in charge of this world:

In other words, since Satan controls the keys to power (with certain limitations from God), it is Satan who has inverted the world's beliefs.

Satan's symbol: inverted pentagram

Why do people worship Satan?: for power

A Few Examples:

If one is rich by the world's standards, then they are likely to be actually poor (because they have no treasure in heaven)

If the world views you as intelligent, then you are likely to be stupid (because your knowledge contains many lies which you refuse to reevaluate)

If the world views you as a powerful, you are likely to be weak (because you sold yourself to get there)

And on and on and on.

Bottom line: You live in a real-live version of the Matrix. The world contains only as much truth as required to get people to swallow the rest of the lie.

Which is a view I would find appealing, because this is a world of suffering and injustice. I even do find it appealing in Jib's case. But a world in which the same amount of suffering and injustice exists, only applied to the opposite people, doesn't tickle me much.

Anyhow, this really is the core of Christianity. The two messages that Christianity brought together are that worldly gains are counterproductive and that everyone is a vile sinner.

These two principles represent an extremely powerful mental complex. The first message inoculates the practitioner from external influences (worldly influences are corrupt), and the second message inoculates the practitioner from internal influences (would you trust the thoughts and feelings of a vile sinner over the word of God?).

And it works to prevent its followers from seeking wealth and power (while simultaneously encouraging them to give whatever wealth and power they happen to have over to the church). Keep your followers weak and ignorant, and you will have total control over them - it's a core principle of tyranny. And what better way to keep them weak and ignorant than to proclaim weakness and ignorance as a virtue?

Let us be clear. The Bible makes it clear that this planet is one of great injustice. Many, many times does the Bible emphasize that Satan controls the planet. Another one:

I'm not going to disagree with your analysis at all. It is a valid point.

Perhaps, but to pull that off you have to set yourself up as God or God-appointed, at least. Pulling that off from the present point in time, would require a plan the most diabolical plan in history. This is the implication of "documentaries" such as Zeitgeist.

Ignorance is not heralded as a virtue at all. It is just that the world's standards are inverted.

You can't test God but you can test the world to see if this inverted reality is true.

Pick a topic and start digging to the bottom. Almost anything in politics is good because that's where the power resides.

I'm going to make a very bold statement here: It is my view that the most true and passionate atheists also think that we are living in the Matrix and running out of time. Hitchens comes to mind.

It's a valid point, but if I let it sway me I get burned in a world even worse than this one?

That's exactly my point. Those we should be most suspicious of are those who claim to have been appointed by God. Ie Jesus, Saul of Tarsus, the Pope...

Pulling it off 2000 years ago would have been much more achievable.

So you think those viewed as intelligent aren't really intelligent? That those viewed as knowledgeable aren't viewed as knowledgeable? More importantly, you think those viewed as ignorant are really knowledgeable? And that those viewed as stupid are really intelligent? Do you think the IQ 70s are the "real" geniuses?

It's not the idea that we're living in the Matrix that's offensive. That idea makes sense. The idea that's offensive is that there's a benevolent being behind it all who is going to make everything better for us. And, more importantly, the resignation that we shouldn't fight or try to improve the Matrix until that being decides to do his thing. I don't see Hitchens as especially compassionate, and I don't see his hopelessness as a virtue. Harris has much more going for him imo.

Well, if the Bible is, in fact, true, it does make one promise about this. "Seek the truth and ye shall find." So, that should be a freeing statement in that you're not going to get burned if you really care about the truth...because you'll find the truth.


Jesus and Paul are some of the authors of inversion theory. They didn't really "gain" anything worldly, except for posthumous fame. You should, however, be on guard for people who might "use" the church and twist the teachings (which is easier to do when most people don't read the Bible) so that they can use it as an economic or political tool.

I doubt we know but the tip of the iceberg as far as the technology that is out there now, much less what is being created. Imagine what could be done with weather modification, large-scale 3-dimensional projection, or mind control. This is all stuff that the top futurists are already projecting. I think it would be a lot easier to fake stuff now on an unsuspecting mass, especially if you were willing to keep the press "compliant".


No, the problem is not with IQ at all. If there are large-scale systematic lies, however, then the more intelligent people have more knowledge, but that knowledge is based on lies. What makes it worse is that the intelligent people are the most self-assured and the least likely to reexamine the very basics of the system. Those of lesser intelligence, however, remain suspicious and skeptical. So, in a Matrix situation, those of lesser intelligence are actually more correct because the system is designed to trap the intelligent.


Technically, the Matrix is the design of a malevolent entity. The malevolent entity is attempting to do this out of its own interest.

Nobody's saying that it shouldn't be fought. In fact, the Bible repeatedly asks people to speak against evil...but it's also important to note that we can't get overtly personal here:

I'll leave you with this:

His background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler


Hitchens seems to be very angry person but at least he wanted the world to be fair. He does think he's trying to save Christians from their own leaders. Unfortunately, the only time they put him on television is when he is hating on religion...none of his objectivist arguments are given any time.

We are being warned by people even in death:

Sure, if you're right I'll find the truth. Won't necessarily feel good, especially if a piano falls on me tomorrow and I haven't converted yet.

And money, women, power, and in Paul's case worldly fame.

You think skepticism and critical thinking are inversely correlated with intelligence?

While another malevolent entity waits to roast people in flames for its own amusement. This doesn't seem especially credible to me.

I'm very much against the concentration of power, if that's what you mean.

I don't see that's what it means.



I don't know who your sources are on this. I would just caution you to check for alternate motives.



No, I think intelligence is positively correlated with a blinding form of arrogance. Critical thinking goes out the window when you know everything.


Your opinion, not mine. I can only speculate but I don't hold an "ant farm" view.


That's two of us, then.

Wow, that is compelling evidience that the school systems are biased to the point of teaching kids not to believe in god. The schools systems are so slanted towards atheism. Thanks for the warning of the terrible unfairness of the athistic run educational systmes that are instructing youth.

Yeah. I was taught not to believe in god systemacially throughout 1st - 9th grade. you're right!

The numbers prove it.


No such corrolation between IQ and belief in religion or not has existed in the past. The change in school teachings have had their affect and the numbers show it.

carded is right.

these graphs are at best showing the causation carded has suggested and at worst are deliberate misinformation. can people just stop using them?

There is a correlation between education level and believing the modern theory of disease. This correlation did not exist in the past. People still have the option of believing in evil spirits as the cause, or that aids is a punishment from above.

In both cases,religion and disease, learning about two possible explanations rather than just one, the educated tend to accept one more than the other, even though they are aware of both.

The culturally and family endorsed one is not set aside easily, the "you can take the boy from the country, but you can't take the country from the boy" factor is a big part of our psychology, so when you see it occurring it can't be just shrugged away.

People eagerly hang on to or acquire psychological attractions, feng shui and astrology are current examples. Both of those will show a reverse education correlation.

The school teaching that affect all three of them is the strength of a empirical and analytical approach to understanding the world. It's not that they are taught directly against, they just don't fit in without some cognitive dissonance, which is actually fairly easily maintained given the basic makeup of our brain/mind. Better education just forces a person to face that dissonance which isn't so strongly required of a less knowledgeable person.

Which religion should they teach...yours?

Better yet, I vote that they teach Islam in schools. Would you prefer that over no religion teachings at all?

Already done. If thats what you want to move to the middle east and be taught Islam in your schools. You a lucky guy you got plenty of countries to choose from, GL and have fun.

Whhhhaaat?

We were talking about a public school system in a multi-cultural society, but I guess you're free to shift the goal post if you want.

anyone else saddened by "belief in spirit or force" ?

Worse than being an atheist. Occult?

evidence of the god gene? where's splenda?

Proof? Never once was I told not to believe in god during school, but maybe I was the only one. We actually learned about a whollllllle bunch of religions from a lot of different eras. They were all pretty much alike. But I'm sure you have finally picked the winning religion... just explain why it's the correct one and I'm on board with teaching your religion in classrooms!

You can't teach your own children? Or is it that they know how silly you sound?

/facepalm

Are you really this simple minded? You DON NOT tell people to believe or not to believe that is idiotic. You get a person to believe one side or the other by presenting information in a way that makes a person think he/she is coming to a rational conclusion that agrees with your person view. You do it by how you choose to present information leading the person along a train of thought, saying think this or think that and every kid in the world is going to rebel. Make the person believed they arived to a conclusion on there own and you got them hooked. All about presentation.

Yeah, like there's only TWO sides. What about Allah, Krishna, Zeus, and Yahweh?

How DARE you impose your god on students while conveniently ignoring all the gods that other parents and children happen to believe in. I don't know what it is that makes you feel so entitled, but your child is no better than mine or anyone else's.

THAT'S why religion shouldn't be part of public education!

In my school we had chapel once a week and prayer after every assembly. One of my teachers got fired for having some God v No God debate when he asserted there was no God. Not allowed to impose your beliefs.

Our Christian Union was composed of just 8 people (inc me) out of a school population of 600. 3 of us are no longer active Christians.

You didn't answer my questions.

Once again, you have no proof either. You are just spouting bull****. There was never any sort of bias towards any religion/non-religion in any of my public schools. If you want to make the claim, back it up with SOMETHING other than "My pastor is crazy and told us the trooth!"

Does it concern you that there is a (strongly evidenced) possibility that UNbiased and UNslanted information presented to the average human being will tilt them away from religiosity?

Rather than attribute everything to teacher bias, religious people could simply admit the obvious - reality is biased against religion.

A much larger danger is a group using technology to set themselves up as a false deity and create a serfdom.