Mass extinction comes every 62 million years, UC physicists discover - Religion, God, and Theology

This should be enough for any objective person to throw away the idea of an all-loving and all-powerful creator but of course, those who are able to see their god in a grilled cheese sandwich will probably still be able to find him in systemic global extinction events as well as in asteroids and comets peppering all forms of innocent life at hyper speeds.

http://physics.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_dept_management&act=news&Item id=419&task=view&id=45

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With surprising and mysterious regularity, life on Earth has flourished and vanished in cycles of mass extinction every 62 million years, say two UC Berkeley scientists who discovered the pattern after a painstaking computer study of fossil records going back for more than 500 million years.

Their findings are certain to generate a renewed burst of speculation among scientists who study the history and evolution of life. Each period of abundant life and each mass extinction has itself covered at least a few million years -- and the trend of biodiversity has been rising steadily ever since the last mass extinction, when dinosaurs and millions of other life forms went extinct about 65 million years ago.

The Berkeley researchers are physicists, not biologists or geologists or paleontologists, but they have analyzed the most exhaustive compendium of fossil records that exists -- data that cover the first and last known appearances of no fewer than 36,380 separate marine genera, including millions of species that once thrived in the world's seas, later virtually disappeared, and in many cases returned.

Richard Muller and his graduate student, Robert Rohde, are publishing a report on their exhaustive study in the journal Nature today, and in interviews this week, the two men said they have been working on the surprising evidence for about four years.

"We've tried everything we can think of to find an explanation for these weird cycles of biodiversity and extinction," Muller said, "and so far, we've failed."

But the cycles are so clear that the evidence "simply jumps out of the data," said James Kirchner, a professor of earth and planetary sciences on the Berkeley campus who was not involved in the research but who has written a commentary on the report that is also appearing in Nature today.

"Their discovery is exciting, it's unexpected and it's unexplained," Kirchner said. And it is certain, he added, to send other scientists in many disciplines seeking explanations for the strange cycles. "Everyone and his brother will be proposing an explanation -- and eventually, at least one or two will turn out to be right while all the others will be wrong."

Muller and Rohde conceded that they have puzzled through every conceivable phenomenon in nature in search of an explanation: "We've had to think about solar system dynamics, about the causes of comet showers, about how the galaxy works, and how volcanoes work, but nothing explains what we've discovered," Muller said.

So let's hear it theists, what terrible excuse can you make up on god's behalf for designing the universe to act this way?

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03-21-2010 , 03:19 AM

Tao1

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I think its a little early for that. Also...why would anyone care about this when dismissing the 99.9% of all species blablabla argument? How is this any different than that argument?

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03-21-2010 , 03:24 AM

saladspoon

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Obviously, God hates us but is too busy to bother about squishing us more frequently than every 62 million years. And he doesn't bother squishing out all life every 62 million years, just enough to make us afraid and let us know who's boss.

That, and God hates cockroaches a little less than other species.

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03-21-2010 , 03:24 AM

rizeagainst

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tao1

I think its a little early for that. Also...why would anyone care about this when dismissing the 99.9% of all species blablabla argument? How is this any different than that argument?

It's a little early for what?
--------------------------
Because this obviously will effect humans one day. And trust me, people find it incredibly easy to put things on the back burner that don't effect them, especially religious groups of people who think they're the special chosen ones that god will always protect.

Other than that it's probably not much different than the 99.9% of species are extinct point.

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03-21-2010 , 03:32 AM

Tao1

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

Like all of these, one result doesnt do much for me. Its all to easy to jump to conclusions, and mostly we do that. I havent read the study yet, have you? Regardless, independant confirmation should be sought, alternative explanations aswell. In short, its too early to go about claiming this as real/'true'.

As for the second part, perhaps you are right that religious people are more likely to accept/be influenced by this impending doom argument rather than the 99.9% of all species extinct argument. Personally, I feel the same either way.

I did like reading it though, interesting possibilities, possible explanations and mostly...interesting speculation.

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03-21-2010 , 03:36 AM

rizeagainst

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03-21-2010 , 03:39 AM

rizeagainst

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Originally Posted by Tao1

This is science, it always is.

They are publishing a report on their study in Nature Today. I'm sure that will be reviewed by many.

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03-21-2010 , 04:46 AM

Maximum Rocknroll

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Yeah, not much variance involved in a once ever 62 million years "phenomena"...

which has happened <10 times in the last 500 million years?

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03-21-2010 , 04:52 AM

rizeagainst

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Originally Posted by Maximum Rocknroll

Yeah, not much variance involved in a once ever 62 million years "phenomena"...

which has happened <10 times in the last 500 million years?

Does it really matter if it happens every 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, or 70 million years?

The point is the universe has many patterns and many different ways of killing us, one of which will eventually occur. Clearly, if there be a god, he wanted it that way.

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03-21-2010 , 06:08 AM

#10

zugzwang83

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

lol humans have been around for a couple hundred k years... not sure if im convinced its ever going to affect us at some point. thats a pretty small window, who is to say we will even be around to see it.

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03-21-2010 , 07:28 AM

#11

Hainesy_2KT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rizeagainst

So let's hear it theists, what terrible excuse can you make up on god's behalf for designing the universe to act this way?

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

Clearly, if there be a god, he wanted it that way.

Is there anything else anyone could possibly add?

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03-21-2010 , 07:35 AM

#12

Max H

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Oh no! We are all going to die!

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03-21-2010 , 09:25 AM

#13

JoeyDiamonds

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Waaaaaaaaaaaa.... God only let's us play here for 62 million years at a time..... Waaaaaa.
I want more!

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03-21-2010 , 09:34 AM

#14

Paul McSwizzle

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Um 62 million years? Seems a little ridiculous to even go there when Earth is ~11k years old

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03-21-2010 , 10:29 AM

#15

Ryanb9

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

This is why I hate journalists. Its not every 62million years, its on average. It could be 800 million years or 2 million years, but it averages to 62. They make it sound as if we are "due" which is complete and utter ******ation.

edit arg

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03-21-2010 , 10:34 AM

#16

Wave Length

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Its 3 million years overdue, which means it'll probably
happen next month, a week after Yellowstone park explodes.

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03-21-2010 , 10:43 AM

#17

Stu Pidasso

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wave Length

Its 3 million years overdue, which means it'll probably
happen next month, a week after Yellowstone park explodes.

Lets say there were extinctions every 62 million years until humans came to the around and for some unknown reason they stopped. Would that be evidence of God's existence? Of course I am not talking about evidence for you and I...we simply lack the perspective to be privy to such evidence....I am talking about evidence to some hypothetical outside observer.

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03-21-2010 , 10:49 AM

#18

Stu Pidasso

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Rizeagainst...and I am talking to you specifically(cause this doesn't apply to most atheist here)....I've refuted your atheist religion enough so I don't plan on commenting much in this thread. I will say this:

I recommend to everyone except people with a physics background, that they watch these lectures by Professor Richard Muller. They are great if you want to have a general understanding of how the world works.

physics for future presidents....lecture 1

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03-21-2010 , 03:26 PM

#19

Tsumengo

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Lol what does this have to do with God?

Your could reduce your dumb argument down to:

"How can God exist when people die?"

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03-21-2010 , 04:26 PM

#20

rizeagainst

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Originally Posted by Tsumengo

Lol what does this have to do with God?

Your could reduce your dumb argument down to:

"How can God exist when people die?"

“A stupid man’s report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

Why did god design the universe to behave this way? Ways which punish innocent life forms for no good reason, instead of allowing the beings that he supposedly loves so much to flourish? Answer the question directly, no name calling or straw man argument and maybe I will take the time to reply to you again.

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03-21-2010 , 04:39 PM

#21

rizeagainst

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyDiamonds

Waaaaaaaaaaaa.... God only let's us play here for 62 million years at a time..... Waaaaaa.
I want more!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

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03-21-2010 , 04:56 PM

#22

Tsumengo

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst

All of these are answered in religious scripture. I just think you don't like the answer.

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03-21-2010 , 05:13 PM

#23

rizeagainst

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[ ] answered the question directly

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03-21-2010 , 05:16 PM

#24

rizeagainst

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanb9

uhm, the data and the study say it happens every 62mil +/- 3mil.

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03-21-2010 , 05:30 PM

#25

Pletho

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rizeagainst

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