Identity, a pretty enjoyable John Cusack movie about...

All sin is punishable by death. This seems appropriate to me when I consider that God is the author of life and that it is he who ultimately sustains it, and that when we sin we separate ourselves from him.

Jesus lived for about 30 years before He started His ministry and His ministry lasted for about 3 years (it culminated in His death and resurrection). Jesus is God incarnate and although He voluntarily restricted some parts of His ability (as God) when He chose to become man (in Luke 2:52 it says that He grew in wisdom as a boy) He was fully capable of judging us.

Jesus never sinned in all the time He was on Earth although He faced the same temptations we do (within the context of the times He was living). He never would have sinned because it would go against His very nature (and again I think it's important to stress that He faced the same sorts of temptations that we do). All the times you've heard a Christian say something like Jesus conquers (if you know any Christians) or all the lyrics you might have heard about Him in Christian songs, yeah, they're deserved.

He lets us suffer because that is the consequence of our sins. When Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God they essentially chose to rebel against him by choosing to do something other than what he told them to do. We continue to do this today. God is just in punishing us and letting us suffer. He is also extremely loving in that he has consistently labored towards salvation for us since the beginning, and even promises to transform you through His son Jesus. If you don't want to suffer the ultimate consequence for sin, why not accept that his Son did so for you (painfully) and that He will help you change if you believe in Him and repent? This seems reasonable to me, and also extremely gracious.


Sin is the transgression of any of the laws of God. I don't know what God's will is for you but it is good and perfect, because he is good and perfect. If your children are capable of choosing between right and wrong (in this scenario and as Adam and Eve were) you are just to punish them for choosing to do the wrong thing even if it happens when they are unattended. It is entirely our fault when we sin, first through Adam and Eve's decision to sin (which resulted in us inheriting a sinful nature) and then through our own conscious willingness to sin when we are making decisions of our own. Paul sheds light in Romans 2:12-16 how this responsibility belongs to people who haven't heard the law as presented in the Old Testament. In either case, when we choose to sin we are responsible and God is just to punish us.

The fruits of sin are anything that is bad in the world. Sin is our deviation from God and what happens when we disobey or rebel against him. God is good and does not sin, it only occurs when we ourselves choose to (as also happened with Satan or Lucifer and the angels who followed him).

So you're saying children's cancer is justified because some ho ate an apple?

So when he commanded genocides was that also part of his good and perfect nature?
Or that time he f-ed Job over what was basically a bet with Satan? Or that time he sends bears to dismember children?

How can you love your lord your God when we have absolutely no proof or idea that he even exists? How am I suppose to love him if he does not even introduce himself or even let me know he exists?

Why is that?

Are you saying that the perfect world does not exist?
Are you saying that a world that is without cruelty does not exist?

As you make these claims can you prove your claims as well!

Did Jesus walk on water?
Did Jesus turn water to wine?

If so would you say that he has similarities to witches?
If witches sin by using magic did Jesus also sin by using magic?

As I stated before he lets us suffer because he is Satan! A real God would not let his children suffer, period! How are you even justifying/debating that?

This whole story, while you think it is reasonable, it is completely illogical and very unreasonable! Again think for a second, only a Satanic beast would offer this story and make you think it is reasonable! It is not reasonable!!!!!!!

You are saying this: God (parent) tells Adam and Eve (children) to not eat the chocolate cake in the fridge. Adam and Eve do what children do and don't listen and eat the chocolate cake!

This is how Satanic your God is, I really don't understand how blind you are!

So now Satan (your God) will punish and make them suffer and make all their children suffer (their children that had nothing to do with their sin btw)

for eating the ****ing cake, he not only tempted them by making them curious, he actually created the ****ing cake in the first place!

Adam and Eve were right to eat the ****ing cake, they are not slaves, furthermore if God created free will and they choose to eat the cake then why is the biatch getting so angry?

I'll tell you why, he is SATAN!!!!!!

I've pretty much put this to bed with these comebacks, if you ever encounter any believer just point them to my posts here, if they still don't understand that God is indeed just really Satan pretending to be a God then teach them some simple logic, they should be able to understand then!

Clearly they were not capable of doing that else they would of chosen not to eat the apple!
Clearly had they known the consequences they'd have chosen not to eat the apple.
Clearly they weren't capable of choosing between right and wrong!

Clearly unless both Adam and Eve were completely ******ed that love to get punished (over nothing) only then would thy eat the apple. It seems to me that you and your God clearly made a huge mistake, I mean if Adam and Eve were both knowledgeable would they really choose hell over paradise? Can you really look yourself in the mirror and answer yes to this?

The last part about disobedience and that parents/god is just to punish them. I mean really that's all it was right? He said don't eat from this tree and they did and therefore he so dramatically punishes them, so cruelly and Satanically, overly controlling and slave driver you listen or its hell for you, Satanically destroys them and throws them under the bus!

I mean really mature and a good way to bring up your children, it seems really justified and logical. Yup just punish them, yup the punishment definitely fits the crime here guys!!!

I actually can't fault anybody for not wanting any part of your Satanic God!

This is also funny! So now we have inherited a sinful nature, right!
I now want to bring up that we are made in God's image, is this true?

If so if we are created in God's image then he has to be a sinner! No ifs or buts!

Also we inherited our sinful nature, therefore how can I be held responsible for my sins?

This is gold btw!

Listen to what you are saying? I inherit a decease from my parent. Therefore it is my fault I got sick!

it's all good if you accept jeebus as your personal savior though

I have proof in my own experience that God exists and that Jesus' salvation is real. The same assurance is available to you through his son Jesus. Yes, Jesus walked on water. Yes, He turned water into wine. No, He did not and does not work through witchcraft. He works and worked through the power of God and the Holy Spirit. He publicly defeated Satan many times during His ministry, and even had a conversation with the Pharisees that is disturbingly similar to what is happening in this thread right now.

I'm going to point you towards gotquestions.org, because these are legitimate questions and they can answer them much better than I can.

Why did God command the extermination / genocide of the Canaanites, women and children included?

Was it unfair for God to allow Job to suffer over what was basically an argument between God and Satan?

Why did the Prophet Elisha curse the “youths” for making fun of his baldness (2 Kings 2:23-24)? (also carm.org's response)

Why does God allow the innocent to suffer?

These are obviously reasonable questions, I'm sorry I can't answer them to your satisfaction.

This is hilarious:
Do you really expect to be taken seriously with such tripe?

The answer is that the God of the Old Testament is vile ****, and the stories around him were made up by the barbaric tribes of the age. You would be much better off believing that. God will likely send you to hell for believing such vile things about him, like the idea that he'd murder women and children. How do you know the Old Testament isn't a test? If you believe in it, and decide it is just and ok, then God sends you to a realm when people act like God did in the Old Testament (i.e. Hell).

No who justifies God's actions in the Old Testament will be let into heaven, imo.

I think it's likely that infants and children who are not yet old enough to reason like an adult would would go to heaven after they die. This was the case for one of David's children and I don't see why it would be different for any other child. If a child was killed in one of the wars that God commanded I don't think it's far fetched to think that child went to heaven, whether or not that child was an Israelite. So what you have (and this is just my opinion) is God commanding the destruction of those who were threatening his people and the innocent children caught in the conflict going to heaven. I'm not going to pretend this wasn't brutal or violent, it clearly was.

As for thinking people who believe the Old Testament (and that God was just) are going to hell, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says otherwise.

Why doesn't God kill more children then?

Every woman (and man) that has ever been born has died..
Death is as much part of Nature/God as birth; birth is not "good", death is not "bad" (or you may say that it's all good) -- it's simply the balanced evolution of the Whole.
And you are one with this Whole like a wave that rises out of the sea and then falls into it again. Actually there is no duality between "wave" and "ocean" whatsoever other than in thoughts and words, so no need to fear the fall into the ocean (a.k.a Death). No need to cling to survival, nor to rush towards death. Just let go and everything will happen according to its natural rhythm. Seasons come and go and re-return, just as it has been for billions of years.

Every individual must eventually die for the Whole to rejuvenate itself and continue to evolve. It's not about saving certain individuals or groups of people, but about saving the Balance of the Whole. Kinda like how millions of cells in your body must die every day for your body as a whole to be healthy.

And that quote is real because? The extent to which Jesus both contradicted (in action, for example stopping a women being stoned) and ignored the Old Testament is really telling.

In my opinion God is testing if you believe your heart - given to you by Him, with him always shouting at you the right way to go if only you could hear Him - over some rather nasty "scripture" that makes up the Old Testament. People who fail end up in an old testament biblical world for eternity. People who pass go into heaven.

This is the first time I agree with you!

Walkby are you not going to address posy 433 and post 435? I feel that pretty much sums it up logically!

This website has some of the most vile and disgusting explanations for things that one can imagine.

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-Holocaust.html

While nothing can justify the Holocaust, we do see at least one good thing which came from World War II: Israel now exists as a nation.

Also Hitler built infrastructure.

Not only is homosexuality punishable by eternal hell, according to you, also murderers can go to heaven. Doesn't matter what kind of crap you have done to people, if you say you believe in jesus you will be forgiven. What kind of morality is that? So a gay man that doesn't believe in jesus goes to hell but a murderer that confesses is totally welcome in heaven.

You're sick if you believe this. Just sick.

God is offering you a gift, which is his to give. If you reject that gift, you reject heaven. The choice is entirely yours.

Also, we do horrible things to animals every day, because they are ignorant and can't see the big picture, while believing we are Good. We barely notice the horrible things we do to animals. Why wouldn't God do the same to us?
Why is that sick? If homosexuality is a terrible abomination, a sin against nature and the way things should be, then why should they get to go to heaven?

If I offer someone a gift, the consequence of not accepting that gift is not that I put them in a lake of fire for eternity. Couldn't there be a more neutral place you go when you don't accept heaven?

God pretends he loves us, I don't pretend to love animals and look out for them.

And if indeed homosexuality is a sin then why are they on the same level as murderers and why is it in fact more important that you believe in ghosts rather than your actions. The way the system works is that gay atheists go to hell and christian murderers go to heaven, who in his right mind thinks that is fair?

"Because these young people of about 20 years of age or older (the same term is used of Solomon in 1 Kings 3:7) so despised the prophet of the Lord, Elisha called upon the Lord to deal with the rebels as He saw fit. The Lord’s punishment was the mauling of 42 of them by two female bears. The penalty was clearly justified, for to ridicule Elisha was to ridicule the Lord Himself. The seriousness of the crime was indicated by the seriousness of the punishment. The appalling judgment was God’s warning to all who would scorn the prophets of the Lord."

"Probably the most difficult part of these commands from God is that God ordered the death of children and infants as well. Why would God order the death of innocent children? (1) Children are not innocent (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). (2) These children would have likely grown up as adherents to the evil religions and practices of their parents. (3) These children would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites and later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents."

If these commands came from any regular person we would deem that person a wicked sadistic psychopath.

Somehow your God who issues these commands is loving and just because it is his nature to be loving and just (lol circularity)

You're really tipping the boat if you depart from scripture.

Jesus didn't contradict scripture when He did what He did, He demonstrated that God sees the heart and that the standard we are held to is higher than simply following rules or traditions. The Pharisees on the other hand insisted their following of tradition justified them and made them righteous, to the point where they sought to kill the son of God (while he was publicly healing people and casting out demons) simply because He showed them that they were lacking in their adherence to that tradition. Again, gotquestions.org has an awesome answer that addresses this. Also Paul addresses Jesus' fulfillment of the law at length, which might help you understand the things that seem like contradictions.

I said what I had to say. What you choose to believe is up to you. I encourage you to believe in Christ and to learn more about Him.