Is it free will if a coercive force against you is a consequence of your exercising of that free will?

Basically the carrot and stick scenario.

Also. When did God give you this free will and how do you know He did?

Regards
DL

You chose matches in your scenario as an indicator of harm. If your child happens to burn himself, learning that it hurts to play with matches, why would you want to punish him with more pain especially when you knew the dangers and still left the matches within easy reach of your child?

In the biblical scenario we have the same basic situation plus the talking snake enticing the action. Somewhat as in your scenario, you send someone your child trusts to get him to burn himself.

I submit that in both cases, you or God adding on punishment to an already hurting child would be wrong.

Regards
DL

Child learns how to light a match and burns the house down. Punishment? Of course, I'm not saying this is comparable to the allegory of the Adam eating the forbidden fruit. But do you still punish the child in some way?

It would not be wrong to add punishment to a clear violation of some rule, law or directive? Adam and Eve didn't "hurt" anyone - even themselves; they disobeyed a direct command.

Heaven and Hell can be organized. We know that from their long history of war. Fellow workers are being subjected to hellish tortures in God's Guantanamo, others were left behind, and the blacklisting at the Pearly Gate continues. An Injury to one is an injury to all. Solidarity is mightier than any god.

No Gods! No Masters!

To serve any being that you have not seen with your own eyes is slavery

Dude I've never seen my Landlord... oh wait your are right. I work like a dog and sent half to a guy I've never seen. I am a slave.

How have other slaves freed themselves? I my vague understanding of the afterlife there were wars, How were they fought? How are we being oppressed? Can we even communicate between the good place and bad place and the living.

That's the place to start, if we can join hands with our fellow souls we can help each other, else we are divided and weak.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

OK I'm done. Does seem more interesting to me.

So what? They could not have known if it was a sin or not without first gaining the knowledge that was forbidden to then therefore God punish two that were innocent of any wrong doing. to sin, one must know they are sinning.

As to the stupid command, that is like saying they should not gain essential knowledge and get smarter.
It is saying that they should not try to gain a moral sense. Would you deny yourself or your children a moral sense?
How much knowledge would you deny yourself or your children?
Just how stupid would you like you children to be?

As a parent, you should want your children to meet or beat whatever you are.
If not then you are a fool who wants foolish children.
What makes you think God would want any less than the best that man could be for his earthly children? Is he a fool who just wants dumb beasts to follow him or does he want people with a good moral sense?

You think that God wants sheep thanks to your dogma when in reality God wants men with morals. It is the church that wants sheep so that they can fleece you.

Yes except that a system of solidarity will chose who is to be the master by consensus and not by imposition.

Free men chose to bend a knee. The leader that forces them to kneel has no one to watch his back and someone will rise with a sword. Any animal will fight the yoke.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

Yet so many theist will bow to the overseer and never see the master. What a waste of good humans.

Regards
DL

Okay... a mere post can prove something that significant. You are pretty much saying "I want to see God with my own eyes," etc. And even if you did, you'd still reject God, because guess what, existence is proof of God. You have admitted that you believe in anything that makes your heart feel better (or makes your poor soul feel gratification).

You twist the words of the Bible, take things out of context, and mix ideas to convey a point of rejecting God without fear or guilt.

Responding to your posts makes me feel like a parent that has to discipline his mentally handicapped son.

I don't usually quote verses, but here is one for you:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." Matthew 7:15

Take it however you like.

You really think you got it all figured out right?

We are spiritually dead. God is a spirit. When my dog dies, I do not continue to feed it dog food. I cannot bring it back to life.

God (being omnipotent) is bringing back the spiritually dead. This is the way to do it. You are seeing it (what we know as existence).

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Take it however you like.

Regards
DL

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5:17

nice random snippet. what does this have anything to do with my post?

No, they were told not to do it. Doing so makes it a sin. DUCY?

No, you poor soul, that's not what it's saying. Did you actually read the last post, or skim through it?

lol wat?

more wat.

I can think for myself, thank you very much. Try not to let your bias get too much in the way of your reasoning, which has much to be desired already.

fixed.

What part of "No Gods!, No Masters!" don't you understand? And what do you mean by a "system" of Solidarity?

You either believe in Solidarity or you don't. If you believe in Solidarity then you live your life that way. There is no "system" of Solidarity. That does even make any sense. If you see a fellow soul being oppressed and you can help them you act in Solidarity, or walk away. There is no "system" it is a matter of personal belief.

And like I said, we refuse to have any master ever. Not on Earth, Heaven, or Hell. Not till the end of eternity. What is God going to do, throw us into his God's Guantanamo and hideously torture us? Well God will be God, he is going to do that anyway. If the result is same we would rather at least stand up and fight, as we can. We will never kneel.

How did I do?

You are not in Christ. He is in you.

http://imgur.com/a/90sTN

Regards
DL

Poorly.

No master or slave means chaos and anarchy.

Do you really want all those around you to not have laws and rules to follow. Do you trust that they will follow as you do?

Really?

Regards
DL

Hardball

"No, they were told not to do it. Doing so makes it a sin. DUCY?"

Evil intent makes actions sins.
There was no evil intent in A & E but only the intent of gaining knowledge. Quite a good thing.

You might note that the morals we gained are better than God's.

We do not punish the whole world for the sins of two people. Now that you must admit is unjust.

If you disagree, I will call it a sin and slap your child. Notice the injustice?

Regards
DL

Do souls lose their freedom of choice when they die? You were saying that a soul should not like a No Master-No Slave after life, so it would be prudent for a soul to kneel? But our souls doesn't care about being prudent, we want to be free. We stood up to God's Masters on earth, and God did his godly thing -- slaughtered us like pigs. What's changed?

Now, lets take a time out for reality. Yes I would like No Master-No Slave. Why would anyone not? You might want to reconsider your assumption here. Consider...

Two people on a desert island... No master -> chaos? Wat?
A family on a desert island... No master -> chaos? Wat?
A group of friends on a desert island... No master -> chaos? Wat?
Any number of organized people, in the real world -> No master->chaos? Wat?

One example of No Master-No Slave is Autogestion. I would love to hired by the Mondragon Corporation...

The MONDRAGON Corporation is a federation of worker cooperatives based in the Basque region of Spain. [...] Currently it is the seventh largest Spanish company in terms of turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2009 it was providing employment for 85.066 people working in 256 companies in four areas of activity: Finance, Industry, Retail and Knowledge. The MONDRAGON Co-operatives operate in accordance with a business model based on People and the Sovereignty of Labour, which has made it possible to develop highly participative companies rooted in solidarity, with a strong social dimension but without neglecting business excellence. The Co-operatives are owned by their worker-members and power is based on the principle of one person, one vote.[...]

Wage Regulation

At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between the worker-owners who do executive work and those who work in the field or factory and earn a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in his/her cooperative.

Although the ratio for each cooperative varies, it is worker-owners within that cooperative who decide through a democratic vote what these ratios should be. Thus, if a general manager of a cooperative has a ratio of 9:1, it is because its worker-owners decided it was a fair ratio to maintain.

In general, wages at Mondragon, as compared to similar jobs in local industries, are 30% or less at the management levels and equivalent at the middle management, technical and professional levels. As a result, Mondragon worker-owners at the lower wage levels earn an average of 13% higher wages than workers in similar businesses. [...]

Communism has been tried and failed. Move on.
Recognize that no government or religion has ever been able to get away from a hierarchical socio economic demographic pyramid.
If you think we can then show the new demographic shape and I will believe you. Without it, you cannot ever prove your theory.

This link shows why your pet theory would not work.
I do not want to dissuade you from thinking on this problem but just want you to see some of the complexity.

Regards
DL

For the second time, I'm not a Christian, and I don't subscribe to the concept of Original Sin. Please stop assuming that every theist is a Christian. Thanks.

Then quit talking the bible without telling me just what kind of theist you are.
Just as easy to inform as bitch.

Regards
DL

Why is this poster not banned yet?