Man. Created for slavery in both heaven and hell.

God created man.
God then created the law’s that we are to follow, thus creating moral evil.

Isaiah 45;7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

He told Adam and Eve to obey His command to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil under penalty of death. When Adam and Eve disobeyed and reached out for this essential knowledge, the knowledge of higher education and morals, He imposed His threatened sentence not only on the guilty but also the innocent, all of mankind.

The offspring of man were sentenced to bear the iniquity of our first father, Adam, contradicting---

Ezekiel 18;20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

God is also condemning those who have not sinned. The completely innocent.

Roman 9;11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;

In other words, He commanded us to live without a moral sense and basically remain un-educated and as dumb as the lesser animals. You will know that most issues and topics of higher education all have values of good and evil thus we were restricted from engaging in their study.

We were ordered to stay dumb and be slaved to all of Gods commands.


God gives man free will and dominion on earth. The power to rule ourselves under our own choices.
If we do as ordered, and do not take dominion, we are offered heaven. A place where we must continue to do as ordered or we are banished to eternal torture in hell.
If we do not follow God’s commands and take his gift of dominion in any other way other than what is ordered by God, we are banished to everlasting torture in hell.

In other words, if in heaven we are slaves to God. If on earth or in hell, we are slaves to God. If we exercise our free choice we are condemned to be slaves in hell.

Where is this freedom that God gave man?
It seems that His given freedom says that we are only free to follow His commands.
That is slavery hidden under a false premise of His calling us free.

Is that freedom in your opinion or slavery ?

Is freedom in both heaven and hell the exactly same thing, follow God’s rules; except for the purposeless cruelty, torture and burning in hell?

Islam vs. Christianity.
The Koran, as opposed to the Bible, seems to be more honest and states up front that Allah wants men to be slaves. Is the God of the Bible hypocritical in lying and saying that man is free?

Does God want to keep us dumb and un-educated by withholding most higher knowledge?

Regards
DL

I think you've just found the starting point of the gnostic heresy all by yourself.

The waste in your stomach is saying "I am created for slavery in both the toilet and sewer."

But on a more serious note, you should definitely humble yourself and learn the core of christianity doctrines for a real understanding of the bible before you start to make assumptions.

There is no indication anywhere in the Bible that anyone is alive in hell, so you can't be a slave there.

Incorrect. Moral evil occurs in choosing to break God's law. The law itself is only a necessary condition of evil.

This "evil" is not moral evil. Rather "adversity" better captures the meaning.

No, again. Since you seem interested in this subject (that is, if you are not simply spamming the forum), I suggest you study more.

You are misconstruing the function of the tree as being a teaching tool for moral education. This is incorrect and makes no coherent sense in context. What has been translated "good and evil" could as easily have been "prosperity and adversity" such that, by eating the fruit of the tree, Adam and Eve left the complete contentment of paradise and entered into the experience (or "knowledge") of prosperity and adversity.

The tree of the experience of prosperity and adversity. It's up to you to research the parallel concept in the Hindu and Buddhist religions.

This is analogous to the thesis of your post. God is salvaging what should be destroyed in the first place by going out of his way to prove a point yet never differentiating from Holiness.

You've probably admitted that there has to be a Higher power that binds everything together. A comprehensive study of the book of Romans will probably answer most (if not all) of your questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8...eature=related

As for A & E disobeying the command to not eat of the tree of knowledge.
That is like saying they should not gain essential knowledge and get smarter.
It is saying that they should not try to gain a moral sense. Would you deny yourself or your children a moral sense?
How much knowledge would you deny yourself or your children?
Just how stupid would you like you children to be?

As a parent, you should want your children to meet or beat whatever you are.
If not then you are a fool who wants foolish children.
What makes you think God would want any less than the best that man could be for his earthly children? Is he a fool who just wants dumb beasts to follow him or does he want people with a good moral sense?

You think that God wants sheep thanks to your dogma when in reality God wants men with morals. It is the church that wants sheep so that they can fleece you.

Regards
DL

The knowledge of the root of Good and Evil comes from God. Using that knowledge to judge God and Satan is just absurd logic. Furthermore, the Bible is not an encyclopedia; cannot be taken out of context. As a whole, it conveys the theme of salvation.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I'm guessing you were raised a Catholic but cannot accept it. Catholicism is problematic in many ways. It does not understand the theme of salvation, because it does not want to rid itself of its sinful nature. Its explanation of salvation is faulty.

Salvation, in it's purest form, is bringing spiritual life to the spiritually dead.

Matthew 25:41 "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

This does not say anyone is alive in hell.

Two elements you never see together in the Bible: that someone is 1) alive and 2) in hell. Not other than alive while in hell, and not alive elsewhere than hell. Both alive and in hell at the same time. This you will not find.

You do not understand what a necessary condition is. Better look that up before embarrassing yourself even more.

Adversity may be evil, but not all evil is moral evil. The adversity referred to in Isaiah 45:7 is not moral evil.

No it does not. Either you're making things up or your forum spamming script needs reworking.

That knowledge was not essential knowledge, otherwise God would have given it to them. In fact, the knowledge they gained by eating the fruit killed them, as they were warned it would, which is learning about adversity (called "evil" in this context) the hard way.

Its more absurd to think someone can just shut of their judgment regardless of actions. Its also kind of scary.

I guess that you do not know much about marketing or sales.

The key is to create a need where there is none.

The Church creates a need by making you feel guilty and then they fill that need with a B S story of salvation where you have to do the immoral thing and use the death of an innocent man to save yourself while all the time paying the Church to make sure you are doing the right thing.

They took a God who is described in your own Bible as one who creates all things perfect, and convinced you that you are so imperfect, right from the womb, that you can only buy your way out through them.

You have been suckered by a marketing ploy that a 5 year old would understand.

Don't even think of the questions asked in those links. I would not want you to hurt yourself.

This bishop talk about the same thing. Creating guilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

Regards
DL

Now why would God be unhappy if his children became---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSwL9deXNW8

Would you not be happy if your son bested you.
Any decent father would but then they would have better morals than you or your twisted version of God. Pathetic.

Regards
DL

Once again, you are getting your facts from all the wrong sources. A disgruntled bishop on a tv interview, someone that started out in the wrong business and is starting his own even worse business: Political Christianity.

Same thing regarding the second video.

My time is limited. If you can ask me some of the questions from those vids, then I will try to answer them.

Apples and oranges again. Human beings are children of God in a different relationship than our children are to us. We do not design and create our offspring.

Other than that, no comment. I refuse to be rickrolled into watching any more of your sophomoric propaganda prefabs.

I agree.

until you have actually made a baby the human way, you really cant understand why wishing eternal damnation on your child (for any reason) is ludicrous.

if god loved his children like i loved my children, hell would have never had a chance to be created.

Can evil be said to exist if one has no knowledge of evil? I would say, no. We have to have knowledge of a thing before we can say it exists, and hence, by our knowledge of a thing we give it (evil) existence.

I would say objective evil exists if God exists, since then God would know (and define) what is evil and good. If no created being knows what is evil and what is not, that created being can still commit evil actions that he does not know is evil. Thus the created thing is not himself evil by performing this evil action.

Intent sometimes does not change the gravity of a sin, only the culpability.

I wouldn't go as far as saying, "if God exists, then objective evil exists." I'm not familiar with every definition of evil, but it's a fairly common conception that evil is the lack or privation of good. So, while the definition of evil exists, I don't think that necessarily implies that evil has substantive existence, if that's what you mean by objective evil.

I just look at it as light and darkness being synonymous with good and evil. If all we ever know (or all there is) is light, then darkness does not have substantive existence. It's all open to interpretation, IMO, but when I think of something having substantive existence, I think of it as something having self-originating power and if evil is the privation of good, it really doesn’t have any power unto itself.

So if evil (darkness) does not have self-originating power, why make it a subject of knowledge? As I said earlier, by doing so it would seem we'd attribute to it a substantive existence of its own.

Well, as they say: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Ah, I see. I definitely agree that it is not necessary for evil to 'exist' if God exists since there may be no deprivation of the good.

Without God evil does not exist period since evil is the privation of good, and without God there is no good. With God evil *may* exist in the universe, but not necessarily so.

In fact, I think evil only exists because God gave us free will in order to increase our ability to do the good (love) and give our choices dignity. Without free will there would be no evil. Basically God's choices were to give us free will and allow evil but allow even greater good, or give us no free will and force us to love him, which isn't real love.

Sorry just ranting.

I'm not speaking for Christians/Christianity here, but I want to comment on this. This is a common objection and criticism to this idea of God forbidding fruit from the tree of knowledge. This isn't the case. What you have to keep in mind is there is a lesson here - a greater wisdom, if you will - as there usually is in these sort of theological narratives, and that is that the reason why God gave his command (according to some theological interpretations) is that Adam did not possess the wisdom to responsibly handle such great knowledge. That doesn't mean, however, that - something like - "God then shouldn't have created the tree!" That's about as silly as saying the blade should not have been invented, because it leads to murder.

Think of it like yourself using matches to light the stove and your child sees you doing so. He inquires about what you're doing and you explain, but you warn him not to play with the matches. You don't go into detail listing all of the reasons why and the dangers of playing with fire, because, well, he's a two year-old. As the child gets older, you start to inject reason into your supervisory discourse when you give him/her rules and instructions. In the same respect God didn't dump everything on top of humanity all at once, but gradually throughout the ages. Adam eating from the tree of knowledge would be like a child having the wisdom of a 90 year-old, whose life has been full of all kinds of experiences and knowledge about the world and other things.

That's about where I'm at with the issue. Like you said about our ability to do or perform an act of love; good is only good if it's an act of volition or free-will. In my mind, acts of kindness, compassion, generosity, etc., lose their meaning if they're non-volitional, automatic acts. Granted, compared to how good we could be, we're a long way from there, but compared to the rest of the animal kingdom, we're pretty good.

"The knowledge of the root of Good and Evil comes from God."

Nothing that has been written has been written by God. It is all man.

Prove your very definitive statement above and I will listen. You state it as a fact so you should be able to show some evidence.

Other than hear say and Bible say, all hear say, how do you know?
Apotheosis is the only way. I have admited to mine. Are you claiming one?

Regards
DL

Strange then that two apples, A & E, became oranges, to be as God's knowing good and evil and you cannot.

Do come back when you know more and have lost your slave mentality.

Regards
DL

I am confused with your answer. Are you saying that you are moral enough to know that you would not create a hell, but believe that God is immoral enough to do so?

Regards
DL

I would agree.

Regards
DL