Cliffnotes:

I am a 32 year old professional poker player and former youth pastor. I feel that in the wake of all the garbage that came from focus on the family and the negative attacks that Christians make on both poker players in general and poker legislation, that a united front of Christian Poker players is a positive even for the atheists and agnostics of the poker world. Poker, is not unbiblical nor is it sin any more than drinking, smoking, or a 100 other things are. But with no one standing up to say this, the only voice out there is ultra conservative spiritually insecure Christians who are looking for anything to condemn just to appease their own guilt. For the Christians out there, anyone who has traveled to play tournaments or just visited casinos know that there are temptations everywhere. Having a group of Christians to connect with, share in struggles, etc, can be both life EV and poker EV.

So I am looking for Christians who would be interested in networking, connecting, and possibly starting an organized front. I`ve seen many Christians posting in RGT and I am hoping that many of them would shoot me a pm to discuss further.

The Long of it:

I`m not here to argue with anyone who wants to pick apart every last word and try to contradict everything said here. My stance is simple, Romans 14, talks about the strong and the weak. One decides a certain food is holy and abstains, another does not, each does it for the glory of God. IMO there are certainly black and white areas of the bible, but a lot more gray areas where we specifically as Christians need to seek out what God would have us do.

Christians love to take these gray areas and pass their own convictions or opinions off on others both Christians and Non Christians alike. It`s one of the most damaging things about Christianity today. Is it a sin to go to a bar? A bar is just a building that serves alcohol. Some people can walk in and out of a bar no problem and have no issues. Others would not be able to control themselves and would end up drunk and passed out. If one person decides to never go to bars to stay out of trouble, that is fine, if another decides he can go in no problem thats fine. If one tries to force their rules on the other, thats where the problems begin.

Thats where poker comes in. I don`t see anything in the bible even coming close to saying poker is a sin. It certainly CAN be a sin, if it becomes an idol, a compulsion, or an uncontrollable aspect of life, but in and of itself it certainly isnt a sin. For those who love to slap the gambling aspect on poker and point to that, a poker tournament is no different than a golf tournament, and if anything i think theres more luck to golf then there is poker, and certainly more variance.

Being on the road is tough, those who travel the circuits and various tournament series know that there is temptation everywhere, drugs, alcohol, strippers, hookers, and theres plenty of poker players indulging in all the above. Accountability and prayer are great tools to keep you focused on what matters most. I firmly believe its time for an authentic and organized group of Christians that can build each other up and also show the world that were not afraid to say that poker and Christianity are not mutually exclusive, but they can coexist.

I`d be lying if I were to say theres no interest in reaching out to others. I wonder how many poker players have an interest in religion or specifically Christianity, but because of the negative critic and judgemental views of Christians, they are pushed away, turned off, or otherwise afraid to move forward. I`m not here to rub the bible in anyone;s face and to force them into Christianity. Rather I want to be a resource to anyone who has questions, seeks advice, or otherwise wants to further explore their spirituality. Personally I would love some day to even see church services that met in the cities of circuit events, just to give those who are on the road 9 months a year a place to worship.

In the meantime, I would love to see internal value in poker player bible studies, sharing prayer requests, and struggles that we face in every day life. On the external there is no point in doing this if we are not an asset to the poker community as a whole. Looking for opportunities to do charity work, making sure that we represent the poker community well and improve the image of poker players and poker as a whole.

So I would like to talk to some of the other Christian Poker Players, hear your stories, hear what Christians responses have been to your profession, or hobby as it were, and discuss the possibility of teaming up to do some good for other Christian Poker Players, and hopefully the poker community as a whole. If this is something your interested in please reply and ill shoot you a pm. I hope that none of the agnostics or atheists take offense to this post, I am certainly not trying to stir up any resentment, my beliefs are what they are, and I`m simply trying to live them out based on what I think the bible really says, and not what tradition has regurgitated to me... Hopefully at least that can have some merit.

And why, exactly, do you believe Christianity is true?

Because of how it`s changed my life on a daily basis... Because of what I have survived.. Because I`ve hit way too many life 1 outers for this to be luck or chance....

Welcome! Good luck in your RGT forum career.

May I just say that you should consider your sample size?

I have....

Well, I can't remember any "life 1-outer" in my life. So, put together, we're now at 50/50.

See the problem with your hypothesis?

I dont think uke's question was really appropriate or relevant to the thread. But I would def be careful about the line of reasoning alluded to in the bolded. When it starts to turn the other way, and you go on a run where you miss every draw, what will you say about your feeling then? dont get sucked into thinking you cant miss, it can wreak havoc on your decision making.

God: Forget those starving children, lilprog needs the Q

Seems legit.

Ive had plenty of things not go my way as well, and certainly being a Christian does not make life's problems disappear, that being said I`ve experienced enough things long the way to see God's influence on things. I really have no doubts in my mind or heart in regards to Christ.

You can say the exact same things with regard to any religion.

I don't doubt your commitment to anything. But, to be clear, do you think Jesus effects the cards for your benefit?

No thought of scientific method? No thought of random coincidence? It's just a "God thing", right?

Why not? Do you know everything about everything?

Seems a little unkind to jump all over this guy's nuts about being a Christian, I mean he just wants to link up with poker players not argue about his beliefs. I suggest saving it for someone more appopriate.

Agreed. What in OP's statement warranted any of that? If the tables were turned, the Atheists would be angry stating that their thread was being hijacked and accusing the Christians of trolling.

I also agree that Christians can be irrational, illogical, and overly hypocritical individuals. But I find it comical how often the Atheists on this board display the same "cultish" attributes that they are so outraged that the Christians often display.

+1

Seems like 50% of the atheists in this thread think the criticism towards OP is unnecessary, but carry on caricaturing.

Very interesting post OP!

I myself is a christian poker player, ive played poker seriously for half a year and im making around $1200 a month.
Ive told my friends about this and theyre cool with it but i recently told both my parents about it and they took it harsh.
My mother was really angry on me and told my stuff like "when u grow older u will understand that its a sin" and "its a devil's game" absurd stuff that really tilted me. I have many times before tried to explained to them that the game is NOT all about luck and its NOT gambling etc but they still think its only gambling in the game and pretty much nothing else.

Anyway if we reach out to people to understand the fact that its a very complex SPORT and NOT gambling. Then people, especially christians will be more open minded about the game.

As u have already said there is stuff that sucks that comes with poker. If u go to a casino there is hundreds of things that connects to gambling, not to talk about drugs and hookers. but if u can control yourself and be discipline these stuff are harmless.

Oh and OP clearly states that he is not here to argue about his beliefs but u guys go crazy anyway? I mean cmon give it a break.

My opinion is that no he does not.

I`m actually a math / science guy. It would take a really long time to sum up all of my experiences, so I`ll just simplify and say that:

1. I see God's design in so many aspects of creation. To me the odds that gases could explode and create all this, are much higher then the odds that God exists.

2. Let's say for arguments sake I am wrong. The amazing ways I have seen lives changed again and again, make this worth it even if that was the case. That being said, I have a large enough sample size in my life to feel confident in my beliefs.

This is one reason why I feel this is important, and why I think this could benefit even non Christians in the poker community.


I`m sorry to hear about your struggles with your parents. I think all Christians need to pray about their involvement in poker, just like they should their involvement in drinking or 100s of other things. If you have a peace about it that its not becoming more important then God, then stick to your guns.

I would also suggest trying to take the gentlest approach with your parents. Don't try to argue them into agreeing, Love them through it and be patient. I`ve heard stories before of parents who have started out against poker and over time their hearts and minds have changed.

Shooting you a pm here in a bit...

Do you copy/paste this into every thread started by a Christian? Because this one obviously has zero to do with theological debate and your post is ridiculous.

Would you mind sharing the most compelling example of a one outer in your life that you think is most convincing?

Does it trouble you that there are billions, born into poverty, suffering, desease, accident, war, and the like, that do NOT hit the proverbial one outers?

Lol relax. The OP has no obligation to answer, and surely a rather innocent one sentence question is not going to hurt anybody.

Op said: Christians love to take these gray areas and pass their own convictions or opinions off on others both Christians and Non Christians alike. It`s one of the most damaging things about Christianity today. Is it a sin to go to a bar? A bar is just a building that serves alcohol. Some people can walk in and out of a bar no problem and have no issues. Others would not be able to control themselves and would end up drunk and passed out. If one person decides to never go to bars to stay out of trouble, that is fine, if another decides he can go in no problem thats fine. If one tries to force their rules on the other, thats where the problems begin.-end quote


The gray areas are frequently exactly where the weaknesses of the flesh manifest themselves to men's detriment.

Quote about the idea of degeneration:

In the 1850s French doctor Bénédict Morel argued more vigorously that certain groups of people were degenerating, going backwards in terms of evolution so each generation became weaker and weaker. This was based on pre-Darwinian ideas of evolution, especially those of Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, who argued that acquired characteristics like drug abuse and sexual perversions, could be inherited. Genetic predispositions have been observed for alcoholism and criminality. -end quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degeneration

Maybe Christians like to pass their own convictions because they know sinfulness runs more than skin deep.

What's one man's soup is another man's poison.

God knew that genetic predispositions were lurking like curses in the human system a lot earlier than modern science did.

We've got people today that aren't aware they can have genetic predispositions to compulsive gambling that go on to hurt themselves.

Where the bible is silent it's sometimes prudent to fall silent and let God call to the individual and let people seek Him on their own because sometimes the way we read the bible does or doesn't apply to the individual in a given situation.

Note: Lamarck was right on the drug abuse and sexual perversion as being in part inheritable. At least he was on the right track. Addictions run in families and there's a link between pedophiles and in utero hormones. See the causes and biological associations on pedophiles here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

I think your misunderstanding me. I`ve had 3 failed businesses, lost my first wife to one of my employees, have worked 100-120 hour work weeks for the last 7 years, have had my power, phone, internet turned off more times then i can count. My life has been far from perfect and I`ve had many difficult situations(I`m not comparing my life to the many others in 3rd world countries and abroad who have had far worse lifes).

I`m not saying, hey my life has been great so God is real. I`m saying I have gotten through some major major jams, and seen many people's lives radically changed, can I put a quantitative value of the odds of any of those things happening and run mathematical equations to see exactly what the odds of all of them happening are and run variance calculations to see if it is possible? Of course not.

People struggle with understanding how one can be certain of their faith when faith is defined by belief with uncertainty. The funny thing is people put faith in all kinds of things, you get up in the morning and assume your car is goign to work, you go to work and assume your boss is going to act a certain way. Everything in the future has uncertainty but we all have people, places and things that we feel are constants and we count on to respond in that way.

There really is nothing that could be said in this thread or in real life that would make me doubt anything. Do I have all the answers? absolutely not! Are there things in life that are difficult to understand in relation to God, absolutely! But give me credit that I have at least taken the time to read the bible and then apply it to my life to see how well it works rather than simply make a snap decision on it's validity....

This is an example of why I firmly believe that each Christian has a responsibility to seek God on such things and allow the Holy Spirit to show what areas a particular individual should steer clear from. I have no problem with a Christian who feels poker is wrong for them and does not want to participate. I have a HUGE problem with a christian who says poker is wrong for everyone...