Just wondering wat you guys thought regarding this issue? Could you justify the killing of one man/woman if it were to save the lives of multiple others? I think this leads back partly to the debate over the death penalty (which personally i am against)

Depends to whom you are justifying the kill. There may be a correct answer, but never a just answer.

I don't think we can determine that.

Say its the Ku Klux Klan versus an innocent infant or the Ku Klux Klan versus some little old lady who has spent her life on good works.

Now on the surface I'd say the baby or old lady outweigh the KKK but then again I can't see inside the KKK members and I can't see the KKK members' futures. Maybe some of those guys are "redeemable" or will do something great in the future and only God can know it.

So no I can't make that call. Besides every person is connected in an unending chain to other people and if I pull one string I affect all kinds of other people. Imagine Einstein or Lincoln had gotten pulled before his time. We might not have had the Emancipation Proclamation or being going to the moon today.

Leave it to God. Its much safer.

fwiw as an interesting piece of trivia, no human has been on the surface of the moon since 1972.

Yes I think so, but you either have to be pragmatic, fanatic or a utilitarian to think so - atleast in part.

I don't see a connection to the death penalty (as performed in the US), as that does not save the lives of others anymore than the (by comparison) extremely mild prison sentences we have in my country does.

Or maybe to go a little deeper; You would have to add as a requisite that there were no other (feasible within reason) alternative to the killing.

since being pragmatic/fanatic or utilitarian is rare?

yeh you're right bout the death penalty actually that was stupid of me. yeh i don't really think of myself as a utilitarian or pragmatist really but when i think bout this i always think like i would sacrifice myself to save live of like two others, simply becuase weight of numbers and it feels so logical.

Its just an example I was using.

The thought of traveling in space has never appealed to me although it does represent human progress and a lot of discoveries have spun off from it. I'm too used to earth conditions to want to give them up to go putter around in outer space though I do like to travel around the globe we are on. There are probably more discoveries to be made in this world than in any other physical world.

Isn't leaving it to God Osama Bin Laden's argument?

Lincoln did get "pulled" before his time.

If taking a life is a crime, taking two lives is two crimes. If we could have saved millions by killing Hitler, shouldn't we have done so? Or should we have left it to God? Would the victims on the planes that flew into the WTC on 9-11 have been wrong to have tried to kill the hijackers?

I honestly have to think about this one more. I consider this a "clean hands" problem and I haven't ever examined the bible for the answer on this.

Its really a problem of when spiritual evil passes acceptable boundaries into our physical world. In truth evil is never acceptable but the point of when to defend or take a stand against it is complicated. Sometimes fleeing evil is not an option. Maybe bigpooch will give his opinion on this if he's monitoring this thread. He didn't agree with Bonhoffeur deciding to join in the assasination attempt on Hitler and I'd like to hear why.

Its a good research topic.

If I see a bunch of klansmen attacking an old lady, I'll kill as many of them as need be to stop it. Given that I had the capacity to do so.

For me it's a pretty clearcut case of the lives of a single person (with not much left of her life) being worth far more than the lives of many klansmen.

But then again, I was hardly raised as a pacifist. Needless to say I would still prefer a peaceful method. It helps that I don't like klansmen, so call me a prejudiced.

The death penalty is not about saving other lives. We could lock the culprit in solitary for the rest of his life. It is about justice and punishment.

I don't think you could justify not killing one person if it were to save lots of lives (all other factors being equal).

Well, if we kill the one guy do all the others become immortal?

Wow, Splendour, you never cease to amaze me with your ignorance.

only if you're jesus obv

yeah i guess wat i was sorta trying to see also something raised in 'The Dark Knight' lol about the prisoners and the civilians and whether people see the lives of those who have committed crimes or are seen in the eyes of society to be worthless or evil, are worth less than that of a law-abiding citzen. If u knew Nelson Mandela (or Martin Luther King for americans) were to die at an early age, how many murderers would u be happy to kill in order for them to survive. (NB. the murderers aint actually the killers of Martin or Nelson, committed unrelated crimes) Please don't come up with the argument that how can u know that Martin or Nelson would've survived, its a hypothetical so suppose if u save them they go on to complete all their good works

Yes, 2 > 1, so two lives are worth twice one life. lol..

No, you cannot justify "killing to save lives" in the hypothetical sense of future actions, whereas a situation like having a sniper shooting a madman with a finger near an explosive trigger is clearly different.

none

I think the God of the bible only likes it when the many are killed for the few. Like in The Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah or the Endtimes.