can you elaborate on this point? seems like millions of people are put into situations where self defense if important...

I have made my case, pretty clear. I am listening to evidence to the contrary...

"Acting like Jesus" is a pretty subjective concept, and it relies on human interpretation of morality. Is Gunth supposed to be a carpenter? Heal the sick? Is Gunth omniscient or omnipotent, or does Gunth have access to the same Divine information that Jesus did?

There's just no way of resolving what "Acting like Jesus" means.

It's more like millions of people are put into situations where self defense seems important.

Only if they are unbelievers then it should be ok.

You want scripture to back up the claim that Jesus' death was important/necessary for humanity??? You are much odder than I thought.

We all are capable of receiving the Divine information Jesus did. That is why we have God's Word. That is why we were given Jesus as an example.

No, actually the claim that Jesus' death was important for humanity is the only claim you have made in this thread that can be backed up by Scripture. I am talking about all your other claims.

OIC. Okay, I'll leave the thread.

i dont understand why you just repeated my post...

For once I agree with Gunth. Based on the examples set in the NT (Jesus, Paul, the disciples, etc, etc) it is clear they never fought back when they were being killed (Paul being stoned many times), regardless of the reason for the attack.

If you believe in the Christian God, then you should have no worries about being attacked or killed. If God wants you to die, you'll die there, if he wants you to live, he'll "resurrect" you just like Paul was after he was stoned to death.

It may seem like i did.

Wouldn't hell or exterminating people to keep heaven perfect be considered killing in self defense. If not then i would think the killings by Jesus in Revelations would be looked at that way.

ah, i missed that...

If i kill someone in self defense, how would that be keeping Heaven perfect? Are people judged acceptable to Heaven according to if i kill them or not? (Hint. Not even close.)

You missed the seconded part. According to some Jesus will kill his enemies in an end-times battle. So if you want to kill people in self defensive just join up with Jesus in the great Armageddon and you can kill all the non believers you want.

Just ask the guy if he's a Christian and accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as his Savior. If he's about to do you bodily harm, he's probably in no mood. So when he laughs or says no, you can assume he's a heretic and it's okay to kill him.

Good, another reason to not be a Christian. I of course value my life more than everyone else in the world and I wouldn't hesitate to kill someone in self defense if I had a gun or knife.

Its inconceivable that organized Chrisitianity does not have an official stance/argument explaining why it is OK for them to kill to avoid being murdered.

Do you not see that is one of the main problem with man? Most everyone values their life over others, and people suffer as a result.

Almost every problem known to man is a result of this. (If not every single one)

That is why we are given a Golden Rule to follow.

Probably because there is nothing in God's Word for them to back up such a stance.

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

Letting someone live who wants to murder you is, in most circumstances, loving your neighbor more than yourself, which is contrary to God's word.

Are you saying that you would not fight to defend your country? Would you be a conscientious objector?

I want to say that Christians make up a huge percentage of the US military, but I could be wrong. Don't think so, but could be. Haven't looked it up.

I cannot kill another man. If someone wants to come into our country and slaughter me because of their own personal interests, then that is their choice and they will be judged by that action. I personally think Christians are tricked into joining the military.

You are talking in terms of you only. Do you have any children, family, or other loved ones? Would you be willing to let an intruder rape, murder, or torture them if you could stop it by killing him?

And where do you draw the line? So you won't kill, but would you at least be willing to fight to prevent the torture or murder of a loved one? Or would you turn the other cheek and watch your daughter or mother be raped?

I think it's admirable that you don't want to kill (or fight), but I want to make sure that you've thought about this deeply enough. Are you saying that if you saw someone gunning down a classroom full of kindergartners, you would not be willing to take a life to save those kids? What about someone who is about to blow up a stadium full of 40,000 innocent people? How about 250,000? What if all you had to do was punch him in the nose?