This is what really scares me about theists.

Fortunately for my blood pressure, I believe most people who claim this are not being honest with themselves.

I think it's generally true that if most believers got a vision from god they would probably believe the vision wasn't real, which is kind of interesting.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

I dont get this thread at all, but lets try to use an human example to see if there is any difference in the two actions/statements noted below.

If the U.S General in Iraq give an order to his soilders to bomb a certain area that may result in lose of innocent civllians, would they obey this order?

Answer: Yes because they are trying to free the nation of Iraq from terrorist/evil regime, yes there will be civllians killed but over time and for the bigger picture its for the good. (If you say no can you explain why!!!)

If God were to request me to sacrifice my child would I do it?

Answer: Yes, because God see's the bigger picture not just the here and now, anyway there is a story about God asking Abraham to kill his son Isaac I suggest you should read it.

Just look at how many horrible things have happend on this planet. For centuries religious freaks have killed millions of people and started wars and spread a lot of hate and terror all in the name of God.

Mental institutions and prisons are full of people who claim that they had to kill and do horrible things in the name of God.

To answer your question, I think that a lot of people would do exactly what their imaginary God tells them to do.

Why does it not surprise me that BigErf was a supporter of George Bush.

QFT

It's scary that the theists in this thread firmly believe that they'd be able to differentiate between the onset of mental illness and god actually speaking to them.

They're all potential ticking time bombs, imo.

It's really scary when you think about it.

Have you stopped to consider that people in Iraq think that we are the terrorists, and that their attacks are done in order to end tyranny?

You are blinded by your ethnocentrism.

Take a long walk off a short cliff allmightypants

+1

More interestingly, how would you go about determining that it was, in fact, God communicating with you before you sacrifice your firstborn or some such?

I guess you'd ask for a sign of some sort, but that just begs the question, "how would you verify the sign was legitimate?" which would, (I hope) be impossible.

If a deity is going to bust out the supernatural fireworks for me, I'd be pretty disappointed to find a natural explanation.

It would just need to give you information you can verify that you couldn't possibly already possess - say it picked the winning lottery numbers 4 weeks in a row (with the caveat that if you attempt to play those numbers you'll be hit by a bolt of lightning or whatever). You can then verify this with third parties (yeah the winning numbers were x,y,z, and yep, that really is x,y,z written on that piece of paper). Eventually you could bring it to a point where you would need to be completely delusional 24/7 for it not to be real.

If you think that somehow God has spoken to you or is sending you a sign you belong in a mental institution and should get help.

Good application of inductive logic to rule out hallucination (doesn't grant total certainty, but I'm not going to nit it up over that) but you still have a further problem of verifying whether said entity is properly God. Here's a humorous conversation with Issac:

"Issac, sacrifice your firstborn unto me, for I am the Lord."

"How can I be sure you're the Lord?"

"Because I said... uh, here's a miracle! See, it's me!"

"That's pretty impressive, but it doesn't prove anything. You might be a devil, something else, or maybe a hallucination!"

"Stop being coy, Issac, I'm serious. I am the Lord, obey."

"I don't know, this 'sacrifice thy son' thing seems pretty out of character. I'm going to employ my personal discretion here and abstain."

"Oh for the love of..."

Yeah, not complete certainty, but it will definitely force you to the dilemma of either it is god or I'm bat****-crazy. Option C of it being a very powerful entity that wasn't god... little ultimate difference from my perspective, and possibly no immediate difference at all.

if god does exist with such powers it's not unreasonable to believe that others might have powers as well. there would be no way for you to determine if it was god or a psychic talking to you.

There are those in this world that claim to employ Christian values, but fail for lack of deeds.
i am not a wealthy man. while i help people when i can, i would never put the welfare of my family in jeopardy to feed starving africans. i would be a fool.

Luke chapter 12:47-48 47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
(biblegateway NIV)

But you are right. I've seen many inconsistencies. I hope what you get from my post is that there are some that employ their faith with consistency.

I find myself in full agreement with BigErf for maybe the first time.

I'll note that I would probably see a doctor for "milder requests" however, we might be different on those. But for the big ones it would be the looney bin yes.

Actually Hopey, I'm not.

I have never voted on anything in my life ever. I'm not a registered voter and never will be. I don't watch TV, read the newspaper, or keep up with politics in any way. The only bit of information I ever find is from participating in this forum. And if it wasn't for my daughter I'd be living in the Black Hill Mountains away from civilization. Or with Splendour in Amish country.

I read what I posted about Bush in an article, and ever since I've respected the man in a way I never thought I would. I don't support war and I think it's foolish but for some reason I understood the belief that Bush had in what he was guided in doing. And I can't fault the man for doing what he believed was right. And yes this all is because of him being Christian.

so you have very little information to base the things you say in this forum off of? the more info you have the better play you will make imo.

I feel bad about the second paragraph because I linked you to that article in a post I made in this forum. To think that I actually created a Bush supporter does not make me proud.

On a side note is there going to be a Splendour / Big Erf cyber wedding? I think it would be a good day for the RGT community and would probably bring us all closer.

Hah. The whole thing reminds me of God using Nebuchadnezzar II. God is in control whether you're a ruler in sync with God or not. We're all moving inexorably under divine providence whether or not we like current events. God lets us choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem but he's ultimately at the helm in this hell ridden world. Hell ridden but not God forsaken.

does that mean you think that we mostly have free will, but that god gives us little pushes and that his "plan" will outweight our free will?

I don't think I would believe that it is actually God speaking to me, and I certainly wouldn't be sure of it. As a result, your question seems irrelevant to me.

Assuming I made those assumptions anyway (that I believed God was talking to me, and I felt sure of it), I would have to ask God for an explanation.