I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on - Page 8 - Religion, God, and Theology

Your orginal position seems to be that adults should be allowed to inflict pain on children as a means of control. Is this accurate?

My position is that adults should not be allowed to inflict pain on children as a means of control. I think Adults who strike children should be treated the same as those who strike other adults.

Yes, I'll agree that is my position - I think parents should be allowed to spank their children, and I think inflicting pain on children as a means of control is a fair description of spanking. In general, I think parents should have special rights with regards to their own children that allow them to act towards them in ways that would be unacceptable towards another adult, and that this includes disciplining them for behavioral infractions.

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04-18-2019 , 08:40 PM

#178

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Kelvis

Who cares, indoctrinating children with religious nonsense destroys their intelligence which is a much bigger offense.

Hear hear... And parents shouldn't have any rights over their children that no one else has. We abolished slavery, remember?

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04-18-2019 , 08:44 PM

#179

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by chillrob

Hear hear... And parents shouldn't have any rights over their children that no one else has. We abolished slavery, remember?

Uhhhhh... wut?

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04-18-2019 , 08:45 PM

#180

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by Kelvis

Who cares, indoctrinating children with religious nonsense destroys their intelligence which is a much bigger offense.

Interesting thesis. What is your concept of "intelligence" and in what way is it "destroyed"? Furthermore, can you elaborate on your concept of "indoctrinating"?

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04-18-2019 , 08:49 PM

#181

chillrob

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Uhhhhh... wut?

I don't see anything in the 13th amendment giving special exemptions to parents or lack of rights to children. Yet I still suffered through 18 years of involuntary servitude, backed by threats of violence and starvation.

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04-19-2019 , 12:00 AM

#182

FellaGaga-52

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Originally Posted by tomdemaine

I will be uttlerly devoted to his word and do everything thing he asks of me. On one condition, that he personally tells me exactly what he wants me to do. Not through a book, not through a priest, not through faith or any of that nonsense. I've sent up a prayer asking for guidence but haven't heard anything back yet. I'll let you know when he gets back to me and I can start making some big changes in my life although maybe he'll want me to keep on keeping on. I'm looking forward to it to be honest.

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04-19-2019 , 12:04 AM

#183

FellaGaga-52

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Indoctrination: shoving something down children's throats upon penalty of being ostracized from family and tortured in hell if you don't believe it, when they are obviously too young to think for themselves, no thinking allowed on the subject for the remainder of your natural life, as in the talking snakes, witches, rape, murder and slavery in the "good book" is not allowed to be thought about as fictional and wrong, as in a god who sanctions that is not all-loving and never changing but in fact the musing of brutal, primitive man ... for a start

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04-19-2019 , 09:51 AM

#184

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by chillrob

I don't see anything in the 13th amendment giving special exemptions to parents or lack of rights to children.

And... ??

Do you understand any of the content and historical context of the 13th amendment?

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Yet I still suffered through 18 years of involuntary servitude, backed by threats of violence and starvation.

I make no claims about your personal experiences. Maybe you were literally enslaved as a child. I don't know, and I suppose at some level don't care with regards to the argument you're making.

The argument presented thus far has the logical force of "I was abused as a kid, and my parents were Christian, so all religious parents abuse their children."

Or maybe you aren't actually trying to make a cogent argument at all, and you're just posturing because you're angry.

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04-19-2019 , 09:52 AM

#185

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52

And do you believe that this is an accurate representation of all religious upbringing?

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04-19-2019 , 10:14 AM

#186

Kelvis

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Interesting thesis. What is your concept of "intelligence" and in what way is it "destroyed"? Furthermore, can you elaborate on your concept of "indoctrinating"?

Do you want my concept of "who", "cares", "children", "with", "religious", "nonsense", "their", "which", "is", "a", "much", "bigger" and "offense" as well?

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04-19-2019 , 01:35 PM

#187

citamgine

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Yes, I'll agree that is my position - I think parents should be allowed to spank their children, and I think inflicting pain on children as a means of control is a fair description of spanking.

Do you have a rational basis for this belief?

As I said before, the consensus amongst professionals seems to be in strong opposition to inflicting pain on children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

In general, I think parents should have special rights with regards to their own children that allow them to act towards them in ways that would be unacceptable towards another adult, and that this includes disciplining them for behavioral infractions.

Why do you feel parents should be allowed to inflict physical pain on their children but not on other adults? Why should they be granted special permission in this regard?

I can see the logic in granting certain special permissions to parents in order to prevent incapable young children from incurring harm. I can not see the logic in allowing special permission to cause harm (pain) to children.

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04-19-2019 , 02:46 PM

#188

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by Kelvis

Do you want my concept of "who", "cares", "children", "with", "religious", "nonsense", "their", "which", "is", "a", "much", "bigger" and "offense" as well?

Not yet. We'll see if you're using them in non-standard ways as the conversation progresses. Why not just answer the question? (I think we both know why you're avoiding it. It's just a matter of whether you'll admit to it.)

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04-20-2019 , 12:25 AM

#189

Kelvis

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We both know you're trying to do something clever based on the way you define those words. So why don't you go ahead and sod yourself.

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04-20-2019 , 01:05 AM

#190

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by Kelvis

We both know you're trying to do something clever based on the way you define those words.

Uhhhh... yeah... analyzing the meaning of statements by looking at how words are used is really sneaky. It's tantamount to the destruction of intelligence!

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04-20-2019 , 01:08 AM

#191

Kelvis

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The moment you're questioning 3 words in a statement you know you're just fishing.

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04-20-2019 , 08:53 AM

#192

batair

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Religion does not necessarily destroy intelligence and it can sometimes help it grow. Like when that Catholic Priest wanted to learn about Gods universe and came up with the big bang.

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04-20-2019 , 11:19 AM

#193

Aaron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

The moment you're questioning 3 words in a statement you know you're just fishing.

Or pointing you to the parts of your statement that are clearly erroneous.

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04-20-2019 , 06:08 PM

#194

neeeel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

This seems like a non-sequitur. I say the government should not mandate which ideologies are taught and you think this implies that children should be physically abused or denied medical treatment by their parents?

For the record, yes, I believe parents should be allowed to spank their children, although I don't believe they should be allowed to physically harm them. I don't believe parents should be allowed to deny medical treatment to their children for religious reasons.

spanking = physical harm, by definition

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04-20-2019 , 07:01 PM

#195

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

spanking = physical harm, by definition

Is all pain harm?

For example, a vaccination hurts. Is it therefore also physical harm?

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04-21-2019 , 04:56 AM

#196

neeeel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

Is all pain harm?

For example, a vaccination hurts. Is it therefore also physical harm?

sticking a needle into someones arm is still phyisical harm, yes, I suppose it is offset by the known greater harm of a disease. If there was another way to remove the greater harm, everyone would choose that instead.

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04-21-2019 , 05:36 AM

#197

CoolManLuke

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Jesus has risen!!! Happy easter every one!

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04-21-2019 , 06:49 PM

#198

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by neeeel

sticking a needle into someones arm is still phyisical harm, yes, I suppose it is offset by the known greater harm of a disease.

Or it gives them autism. (Just kidding.)

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If there was another way to remove the greater harm, everyone would choose that instead.

No, they wouldn't. (Not kidding.)

But regardless of that tangential conversation, I would argue that your definition of physical harm is probably not useful in the context of the broader conversation. (Based on the fact that you seem to accept that physical harm can be a good thing.)

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04-21-2019 , 10:36 PM

#199

FellaGaga-52

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Originally Posted by Aaron W.

And do you believe that this is an accurate representation of all religious upbringing?

yeah it's always force when a child is dependent and helpless against the onslaught

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04-21-2019 , 10:51 PM

#200

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron W.

And do you believe that this is an accurate representation of all religious upbringing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52

yeah it's always force when a child is dependent and helpless against the onslaught

So, presumably you have evidence that what you describe is an accurate representation of all religious upbringing?

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