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Old 11-29-2018, 07:38 AM   #101
lagtight
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Originally Posted by VeeDDzz` View Post
Omnibenevolence, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

The quadratic recipe for...

Eternal boredom.

Joy exists not within power. Rather, in vulnerability.
My God is all about joy.
How so?
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:38 AM   #102
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

Maybe you should pray to jebus instead.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:28 PM   #103
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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How so?
How so what exactly?
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:55 PM   #104
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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I hope God is taking notes so that He can learn how to better earn your respect.
Hardly controversial that God's respect would be earned by everyone, not cheaply, coercively or automatically given.

You wouldn't give terrible parents respect, although they may have brought you into the world. Especially parents who abuse children.

Neither would you give a bad God respect although he/she/it gave us a world to be brought into.

If your life is hell, from little choice of your own, and some people's certainly is, God better do a lot to earn your respect.

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Old 11-30-2018, 06:28 AM   #105
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Hardly controversial that God's respect would be earned by everyone, not cheaply, coercively or automatically given.

You wouldn't give terrible parents respect, although they may have brought you into the world. Especially parents who abuse children.

Neither would you give a bad God respect although he/she/it gave us a world to be brought into.

If your life is hell, from little choice of your own, and some people's certainly is, God better do a lot to earn your respect.
I believe that all of these points would be valid if the "god" we're talking about is a "god" like Zeus, who is very powerful, but is imperfect and ultimately is just another piece of furniture in the universe. However, the biblical God, who (if He exists) created everything, including meaning itself, would not have to earn anything, given that everything that exists is already rightly his, given that all things are created for his pleasure.
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:38 AM   #106
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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I believe that all of these points would be valid if the "god" we're talking about is a "god" like Zeus, who is very powerful, but is imperfect and ultimately is just another piece of furniture in the universe. However, the biblical God, who (if He exists) created everything, including meaning itself, would not have to earn anything, given that everything that exists is already rightly his, given that all things are created for h1is pleasure.
A God who decides to remain perfect...

Is worse...

than a God who does not.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:56 AM   #107
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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A God who decides to remain perfect...

Is worse...

than a God who does not.
That is....

a rather intriguing...

thought.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:57 PM   #108
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

Sounds like the set up for an interesting Nuremberg defense. Will God appear directly on the witness stand and confirm you were just a temporary non-person, obediently following divine orders?
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:59 PM   #109
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

Maybe OP hasn't heard anything yet because he didn't specify which illusion he wants to talk to. Depending on who you ask there are different fairy tails.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:57 PM   #110
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

They could easily convict women of murder for their abortions if God showed up directly and explained. Look, there be evidence if God takes the witness stand. Testimonial evidence.

God on a direct line could lead to some freaky stuff depending on what supposedly Godly attributes God directly exhibits.
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Old 12-01-2018, 12:33 AM   #111
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Originally Posted by VeeDDzz` View Post
Omnibenevolence, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.

The quadratic recipe for...

Eternal boredom.

Joy exists not within power. Rather, in vulnerability.
My God is all about joy.
That's one way to look at it. Here's another:
"Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now which thinking and time cuts out. This is it. And if you don't get it here, you won't get it anywhere. And the experience of eternity right here and now is the function of life. There's a wonderful formula that the Buddhists have for the Bodhisattva, the one whose being (sattva) is illumination (bodhi), who realizes his identity with eternity and at the same time his participation in time. And the attitude is not to withdraw from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but to realize that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder and to come back and participate in it. "All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhist saying, and it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved which is sorrow."-Joseph Campbell

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Old 12-01-2018, 08:58 AM   #112
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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That's one way to look at it. Here's another:
"Eternity isn't some later time. Eternity isn't a long time. Eternity has nothing to do with time. Eternity is that dimension of here and now which thinking and time cuts out. This is it. And if you don't get it here, you won't get it anywhere. And the experience of eternity right here and now is the function of life. There's a wonderful formula that the Buddhists have for the Bodhisattva, the one whose being (sattva) is illumination (bodhi), who realizes his identity with eternity and at the same time his participation in time. And the attitude is not to withdraw from the world when you realize how horrible it is, but to realize that this horror is simply the foreground of a wonder and to come back and participate in it. "All life is sorrowful" is the first Buddhist saying, and it is. It wouldn't be life if there were not temporality involved which is sorrow."-Joseph Campbell
You speak of beauty and joy my friend.

Your view is no different to mine.
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:35 AM   #113
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Sounds like the set up for an interesting Nuremberg defense. Will God appear directly on the witness stand and confirm you were just a temporary non-person, obediently following divine orders?
No, God will not appear on the witness stand.
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Old 12-02-2018, 02:21 PM   #114
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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No, God will not appear on the witness stand.


Well, the ďwith God all things are possibleĒ crowd probably isnít going to like that.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:57 PM   #115
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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No, God will not appear on the witness stand.
Your God answers to no one? Not even his people?

Unquestionable authority may be the worst kind of totalitarian authority.

It is important to remain aware of who our role models are, and why.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:56 AM   #116
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Well, the ďwith God all things are possibleĒ crowd probably isnít going to like that.
Crowds that take verses out of context probably aren't going to like that, so I agree with you.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:59 AM   #117
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Your God answers to no one? Not even his people?
Correct.

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Unquestionable authority may be the worst kind of totalitarian authority.
When the "authority" isn't the creator and sustainer of the universe, then I agree with you.

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It is important to remain aware of who our role models are, and why.
Well said.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:33 AM   #118
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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When the "authority" isn't the creator and sustainer of the universe, then I agree with you.
If you cant oppose or question this authority, can you really say that you're free to assent to it?
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:01 AM   #119
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

With God all things are possible sits with itís own context.

While God creates all things possible, with God all things are possible.

Itís not very leading context. Circular because until God shows up and confirms directly itís a matter of faith and uncertainty.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:20 AM   #120
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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If you cant oppose or question this authority, can you really say that you're free to assent to it?
Free in what sense? In a sense, I am "free" to jump off the top of a seventy-story building, but gravity will assure that my act of freedom won't end well for me.

God has created a world in which people are free to act (within limits), and God has created consequences to acting or not acting in accordance with His commands.

You can question God all you want, and it's possible that He has answered your question already in the Holy Bible.

God will save everyone who asks Him to!

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:33 PM   #121
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Free in what sense? In a sense, I am "free" to jump off the top of a seventy-story building, but gravity will assure that my act of freedom won't end well for me.

God has created a world in which people are free to act (within limits), and God has created consequences to acting or not acting in accordance with His commands.

You can question God all you want, and it's possible that He has answered your question already in the Holy Bible.

God will save everyone who asks Him to!

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
With hellish consequences lurking in the background it doesn't sound like you're very free to assent to the authority of your God.

And that's fine.

That's the kind of authority you value.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:30 PM   #122
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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No, God will not appear on the witness stand.
Quote:
C.S. Lewis
[T]he greatest barrier I have met is the almost total absence from the minds of my audience of any sense of sin. This has struck me more forcibly when I spoke to the R.A.F. than when I spoke to students: whether (as I believe) the proletariat is more self-righteous than other classes, or whether educated people are cleverer at concealing their pride, this creates for us a new situation. The early Christian preachers could assume in their hearers, whether Jews, Metuentes, or Pagans, a sense of guilt. (That this was common among Pagans is shown by the fact that both Epicureanism and the mystery religions both claimed, though in different ways, to assuage it.) Thus the Christian message was in those days unmistakably the Evangelium, the Good News. It promised healing to those who knew they were sick. We have to convince our hearers of the unwelcome diagnosis before we can expect them to welcome the news of the remedy.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modern man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock.

It is generally useless to try to combat this attitude, as older preachers did, by dwelling on sins like drunkenness and un-chastity. The modern proletariat is not drunken. As for fornication, contraceptives have made a profound difference. As long as this sin might socially ruin a girl by making her the mother of a bastard, most men recognized the sin against charity which it involved, and their consciences were often troubled by it. Now that it need have no such consequences, it is not, I think, generally felt to be a sin at all. My own experience suggests that if we can awake the conscience of our hearers at all, we must do so in quite different directions. We must talk of Conceit, spite, jealousy, cowardice, meanness, etc. But I am very far from believing that I have found the solution of this problem.
American Christians don't talk about Original Sin nearly as much anymore - it just doesn't fit well into the moral assumptions of most people, Christian or not. Instead, religion is more commonly sold as a lifestyle choice: join a church, meet some cool people, self-actualize, feel good about yourself, and so on. A sermon like Edwards' "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" could today only be offered with a certain amount of irony or in the most segregated religious communities.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:01 PM   #123
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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American Christians don't talk about Original Sin nearly as much anymore - it just doesn't fit well into the moral assumptions of most people, Christian or not. Instead, religion is more commonly sold as a lifestyle choice: join a church, meet some cool people, self-actualize, feel good about yourself, and so on. A sermon like Edwards' "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" could today only be offered with a certain amount of irony or in the most segregated religious communities.
There is a lot to say on this topic. There are two conflicting values that have to be held simultaneously. One is acceptance/tolerance/inclusion (feminine) and the other is judgment/discernment/discrimination (masculine). The stronger we hold each of those values simultaneously, our morality will improve, which means our well being will improve.

The problem is the stronger that we hold one of those values, holding the other value becomes more difficult. It takes a lot more effort. This often causes a demonization of one side from the other, seeing the project as zero sum between the two sides. In the West, we have placed increasing emphasis on ethics, which has lead to pulling more from the feminine end and, at the very least, devaluing the masculine side.

When the feminine side is dominating the culture, then there will be more of a general sense of assumed salvation and less focus on sin (or deficiency) as you mentioned. When the illusion gets disrupted by reality, then the masculine will surface in uncontrolled outbursts both individually and collectively. That looks like tantrums, outrage, and other destructive impulses that we are seeing more and more of in the political domain especially.

We are well aware of what it looks like when we pull too much on the masculine end and neglect the feminine, and those fears seem to be contributing to why we are imbalanced in the other direction. It may not seem like this is all related but it is.

The masculine (combined with wisdom) allows us to move forward and progress toward the ideal, and the feminine (combined with wisdom) allows us to do it ethically and at scale.

Last edited by craig1120; 12-03-2018 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:45 PM   #124
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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I will be uttlerly devoted to his word and do everything thing he asks of me. On one condition, that he personally tells me exactly what he wants me to do. Not through a book, not through a priest, not through faith or any of that nonsense. I've sent up a prayer asking for guidence but haven't heard anything back yet. I'll let you know when he gets back to me and I can start making some big changes in my life although maybe he'll want me to keep on keeping on. I'm looking forward to it to be honest.
If you actually do hear from him, then how will you know you're not hallucinating?
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:45 PM   #125
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Re: I will live exactly and completly as god tells me to from now on

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Free in what sense? In a sense, I am "free" to jump off the top of a seventy-story building, but gravity will assure that my act of freedom won't end well for me.

God has created a world in which people are free to act (within limits), and God has created consequences to acting or not acting in accordance with His commands.

You can question God all you want, and it's possible that He has answered your question already in the Holy Bible.

God will save everyone who asks Him to!

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
Thats not freedom, that living in his jail, you call world.
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