How one person can be so obviously intelligent and delusional at the same time, I have no idea.

I would say it's more likely that some of them have experienced the attempted indoctrination into the same faith as you, resisted it and come to their own conclusion about religion overall.

Without knowing anything about you or other Christians I will mostly be correct to assume they have been "brain washed" by their parents. You didn't discover your beliefs they were forced upon you.

If you were brought up by Muslim, Jewish parents and "chose a different religion or had decided to believe in Zeus or Thor then maybe you could present this argument but "someone told me it's true" or a book "tells me it's true" is hardly grounds for claiming to have a personal relationship or "know" a non physical creator.

Well I can explain my position on anything if you accept, "we aren't meant to understand", "well x moves in mysterious ways", or " I have no proof at all but I've spoken to him and he said to tell you..." as answers.

Of course not. The sinful nature of man is an obvious exception, sin being that which goes against the will of God.

Everyone can, and it is impossible to avoid. No one can explain their position on anything without eventually being reduced to "I don't know" or the equivalent if enough questions are asked. Not knowing this is one of the greatest forms of ignorance.

It's a lot easier to say this when it forms the main basis for your position and most people won't start with it.

I'm pretty sure I can tell you why I don't rape, murder or steal without saying "I don't know" or "The Bible tells me".

IMHO, but many will disagree, and even if everyone disagrees, I can understand. Flame away!

If God exists he must be in the form of some kind of Intelligence. We see no physical characteristics of God so why is it difficult to believe that if he does exist it would be in our own form of Intelligence - the imagination? In fact, the Bible also references this in Genesis when it's said that God creates us in his likeness, his image.

image - 1. A reproduction of the form of a person or object 2. One that closely or exactly resembles another; a double


If God does not exist then the imagination is definitely to blame. But if God DOES exist, what is the imagination then? It can be nothing other than HIM.

Maybe then the difficulty comes not from believing that Pletho knows God, but that this God that Pletho knows, is also you. Now that is something to consider. The voice that gives Pletho his knowledge is also the voice that gives you your knowledge. But until you understand exactly what that voice is you will be listening to Mt.FishNoob tell you that you are nothing but dust n bones.

EDIT: God's voice in you may not take you down the same path as Pletho. This should be evident with individuality in the world. Jesus had it right by always placing the focus on God, it was us who got it wrong by building the religion around Jesus.

God is created by imagination, or 'intelligence' itself but that's not really a good word. Why must God be created and personified in a mind? That is the only way it exists and it exists only within the beholder, which can be argued for everything that is. Which concludes if God exists then we and everything is God. Why personify, because we are persons.

But why should he exist outside of this? I can accept that a God exists in my mind, but I know that this is a creation I have intended from nothing more than an idea and I can imagine all sorts of different God(s).

Again, no disagreement,but you conclude wrong. It can be nothing but everything, 'HIM' is personifying your imagination, which is a part of the universe. You are adding what is not needed by adding a creator, personifying some being. I believe in omnipresence, and I am a part of that, my imagination is a part of that, but will not beleive what my imagination creates and certainly not what another persons for always my interpretation will be slightly unique at least anyway so which one is truth and why should any ones be the truth?

So I should listen to Gods voice? Again i can imagine this, I can communicate with the universe in my mind, but its ********. And you realise by clearing your mind completely instead of filling it with words and prayers and images that that nothingness is the truth.

Lets say this is true, How would I know which voice is Gods and which ones are me? Are they all god (what then of 'satan')? fine, but then a rock or a void is also God, fine but then why personify it. By creating a creator, you are needing a creator for that creator, and so forth, for it to work. Its ironic how Christians say God is forever he does not need a creator. So close yet so far in my mind.

Pletho "If you are a believer, a Christian you have power beyond what you understand, power that is operated by believing, and this power can supercede the physical laws in life."

I hope you are NOT in the position to give anyone any health advice...based off your quote, you would probably advise someone who had cancer, AIDS, or some other serious illness to "stay home and pray it away."

Its funny how religious people discredit science until they need it....i will put my medicine up against your prayers any day of the week and lets see who cures more...

There is no power in prayer without believing. You can pray until you are blue in the face and the cows come home, but without actually believing that what you are praying for, will come to pass, nothing will avail.

Believing is powerful and when the word of God is believed above the 5 senses information, the word of God prevails and supercedes the 5 senses information, facts and laws.

Simple as that.

The problem is that very few people actually believe the word of God over the 5 senses information that they are confronted with, ts the 5 senses information prevails in their life.

All the physical laws of the universe were created by God and instituded by God. God also created spiritual laws, these laws are intertwined with the physical laws, and the physical laws exist ONLY because of the spriritual laws.

The spritual laws supercede the physical laws.

When a Christian believer believes the word of God, which is a spiritual law, above and beyond the five sense facts, what that believer believes from the word of God will come to pass.

5 Senses = Facts
Word Of God = True Reality

Facts come and go and are ever changing. The word of God, true reality liveth and abideth forever.

sounds a bit like people that follow the law of attraction Pletho. Or 'the secret'. Why are you right and they are wrong?

One cannot control what cards they are dealt, only how they play them, and its pretty obvious medicine is way more +ev than praying, and what evidence is there that praying is +Ev at all?

Also its a bit unfair that those that havebeen raised in an enviroment where Christianity is easily absorbed (such as yourself) have this huge power of the mind (belief in 'Gods word') advantage other someone African child who will never be able to read a Bible and will have aids at some point.