What do folks think about Jesus Christ(Christian view). Of course I know this forum is not 100% Christian so anyone should feel free to write their honest thoughts on the man simply known as Jesus of Nazareth as opposed to Christ, also known as Isa in the Arabic world. To many Christians, Jesus is a very peaceful man who taught to turn the other cheek as outlined by Matthew in the NT. Others will say self defense is acceptable as outlined in multiple Christian scriptures.


In addition the trinity is something that some Christian groups reject, as it came about hundreds of years after the time of Jesus. How can some Christians be so certain that the trinity ,the belief that Jesus is God is factually correct? Knowing that this teaching(Trinity) did not come about until years after the time of Jesus on Earth.

Talk about front-loading a question.

"The trinity was made up, obv. What do you think about Christ, then?"

Just stop already, man. You are about as catholic as I am a Muslim.

I think he and his story is completely fabricated.

Interesting, do you think Jesus was a real life person who did live at some point in the modern day land of Israel/Palestine?

+1

Nice to see you as well, Doggg I never said the Trinity was made up, Im seeking information itt.

What are your thoughts on Jesus and Christianity? This is a thread about Jesus and the Trinity, not your thoughts on myself, or my thoughts on you. This is not about internet scoring points as I don't have a problem with you.

Though I must say, I'm a Catholic who believes in one God, but I don't view Jesus as God, you as a human will never be able to change this view of mine, take no offense to this please. There is no need for either of us to be overtly mean toward each other. I did say some bad things to you in the Islam threads, that wont happen again.

Anyways if you want to list your thoughts on Jesus and the Trinity, please go ahead I'm interested in them.

This is a serious question. I know your Catholic RLK, and I know you have had quite the things to say about Islam. Forget about that though, I'm interested in your thoughts on Jesus in general and the trinity.

Lets not forget about Jehovah Witnesses, Who refer to themselves as Christian belief system that rejects the trinity. I'm not here trying to say bad things about Christianity. Dogg and RLK I do apologize, I did not mean to imply that the trinity was made up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrin...y_Christianity

huh seems weird. Don't most catholics believe Jesus was God? Kid care to expound on what you do believe re catholicism?

thekid: I'd probably enjoy talking about the Trinity as a Christian belief but it seems like it might be easier to figure out where to start if you asked a more specific question.

Re: God as "One" and trinitarianism, there was a very brief dialogue about it between GMC and I in another thread recently, that starts here. That conversation was more about the authority and authenticity of scripture to start, though, the Trinity just got brought up as an example. Still, I don't know if you saw it.

Re: Roman Catholicism: the Divinity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity formulated by the early church councils are part of Roman Catholic theology, so afaik the vast majority of self-identified catholics do believe Jesus is God

I missed that convo between you and GMC but I shall take a look at it. I was trying to ask the question from a General standpoint. Within Christianity we see some groups who reject the trinity. This includes early Christians before the full inception of the trinity around the middle of the 4th century. I would imagine it could be argued these early Christians did not yet know about the Trinity?

At the same time, it seems that by asking about the trinity, it upset some folks, in which case I probably should have simply asked, what are folks thoughts on Jesus(Christian/non Christian view)

Many Catholics do. As for myself,

The fact that the trinity did not fully unveil until the middle of the 4th century plays a role in my beliefs. Though like I said, I'm very much open to hearing how the Trinity could be real from fellow Christians on this board.

As a formalized dogma of the church the "Trinity" didn't emerge as such until the 4th century, but at the same time, trinitarian-ish expressions are a lot older than that. References to worship of the "Father, Son, and Spirit" are as old at least as Ignatius of Antioch in a.d. 110. At the same time, those formulations aren't identical to the Nicene view, nor was any kind of trinitarianism universal in ante-nicene, any more than it is universal since then. But you can trace the idea of the Trinity in it's development from the very early doxologies to "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" through Tertullian and Origen and through Arianism as the theological controversy which sparked the development of the formalized dogma.

Which is all a lot of words to say that yes, it can be argued that at least some early Christians "did not know" about the Trinity, although I think it would make more sense not to speak of it as something that was discovered which was previously unknown, but rather a theology that was developed over time and which has never had universal support among Christians

The Catholic Church has a central doctrine, that is sort of the point. So I don't think you can be be a Catholic if you don't think Jesus is divine.

I might be oversimplifying a bit, but I don't think I'm far off.

I could be excommunicated, but I dont think this would happen Over the years the attitudes of the Catholic Church have changed. Some Christians I know of are equally if not more so concerned with what scripture has to say then teachings of the Church. Whats interesting is there has yet to be any criticism of Jesus, or any accusations that Jesus committed X in a negative way. Not saying this is bad thing but I understand from the Islam threads folks are very critical of organized religion, so this has been quite the surprise so far.

IMO, Jesus was a righteous person, but he did take up a whip and practically force out a bunch of(alleged) greedy loan sharks in the Temple, I don't think this is a bad thing but I'm surprised folks have yet to really say anything negative about Jesus. Rather, instead I have been accused of not being a Catholic by two people even though, multiple times I have informed folks I'm Catholic and not Muslim.


When the likes of Doggg responds they may say I am either over exaggerating, and or lying about what actually happened in the Temple when Jesus came in to start disrupting the financial activity. Christians like Dogg and RLK may for some false reason think I'm a Muslim trying to undermine Christianity in an attempt to glorify Islam. This is far from the truth, I have the utmost respect for God, I view Jesus as the Messiah.

In addition, Good input, Well named,

So in your studies. The earliest recording of the alleged concept of the trinity was the early 2nd century? Even in your studies can you find anything from say, 25 years after Christ?

Okay, cool. Would you mind answering the below post? I guess you missed it last time.

This is a point often pointed out by Orthodox Jews when explaining why they believe Jesus was not the messiah. They say plenty of negative things about Jesus.

thekid: I haven't made any real attempt to study the history of the Trinity as a doctrine. I've only done some quick google searching, although it seems I have done the same searching in the past because I remember some of the references. Basically my understanding is that the Nicene formulation of the Trinity is novel and owes much to the Cappadocian Fathers. References to Jesus as Son of God, or theology and doxology that relates Father, Son, and Holy Spirit occurs as as sort of proto-trinitarianism much earlier, but I'm sure there is plenty of nuance as to how people understood. I think the earliest forms may appear in the ritual of Baptism, as in Matthew 28:19 (which as I understand it is probably an insertion made into the text of the book of Matthew later than it was originally written) or the Didache, which is a little later than 25 years after Christ I think.

In any case, you shouldn't treat me as an authority on early Christian theology, although I have some interest in it. It seems like you're preparing to bring up some other text. If so, by all means...

A better one is why would a Catholic call Muhammad a Prophet. Pretty much sealed the deal. Not that the deal needed much sealing.


But just for pretend. A non trinitarian Catholic. Guess he doesn't say that little thing you say when doing the cross stations.

I know what your thinking... hes a heretic! Lol JK

I think in the end, only God(singular) will judge us. I'm not worried about burning in hell for not necessarily accepting the trinity.

I think Jesus is a Messiah. I just have a somewhat different view then you do when it comes to the powers of Jesus, For instance, I do agree Jesus had the divine powers of being a healer and curing the blind, also being able to resurrect the dead. We simply may differ when it comes to the view that Jesus is God himself. Part of the reason I created this thread was to gain knowledge on Early Christians who lived up to 350 years after the time of Jesus on Earth. Well named has provided some decent info and I will continue to look into the times of early Christians as well.

Yeshua ( "Jesus" ) is the Messiah and he is the "divine Logos"/ Miltha / Memra / "Manifestation". IMHO, the concept of the Trinity was formulated to fight against certain heretic beliefs, but this concept is technically imprecise/inaccurate; e.g., some Messianic believers don't believe in the Trinity yet believe that Yeshua is YHWH Elohim manifested in the flesh, or that Yeshua is the "right arm of YHWH Elohim". I think the common analogy to use is that there is "One Tree" and Yeshua is "The Branch".

No not at all, I just remembered hearing Orthodox Jews explain some of what they called "sinful aspects" of Jesus' character, and why he couldn't be the messiah. I wasn't implying anything else.

All the Catholics I know reject the trinity and make a point of referring to Jesus as Isa, inshallah.

Idk a Muslim would have gone elsewhere as a Catholic and allowed themselves to get chewed out there as well.

Which is why he's on ignore and I'm convinced he's trolling pretty hard

Then they're not really Christian groups. Christianity is pretty much predicated on the belief that Jesus is the son of god and that they are one.

Scriptures are pretty explicit about Jesus' divinity

It sounds like you want there to be

Believing the bible has something to do with it

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.”

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Why do you pretend to be a christian? Again the bible couldn't be more clear about this.

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

2 Peter 1:1 “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Hebrews 1:8 - But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.


1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 9:5 - And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest

Tell that to the Unitarians.

I would. The fact that Jesus who says that he and his father are one came to the earth, lived among us, spread the word, died, and rose from the dead is probably the most important belief in christianity. So if someone were to call themselves a christian and not believe in the divinity of Jesus and that Jesus was god then they would be missing the point of the religion and disregarding the bible.