especially when theres just as much evidence to believe in any other mainstream god (or no god at all), and the penalty for not worshiping the "correct" god is so severe.

would the Heavens Gate members have died if a space craft wasn't trailing the comet Hale-Bopp? Yes or no?

We cant objectively say no theists allowed say they must think its just a subjective request.

John20:13-18

They said to her,(M) "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them,(N) "They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him." 14Having said this, she turned around and(O) saw Jesus standing,(P) but she did not know that it was Jesus. 15Jesus said to her, (Q) "Woman, why are you weeping?(R) Whom are you seeking?" Supposing him to be(S) the gardener, she said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away." 16Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him in Aramaic,[b](T) "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher). 17Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to(U) my brothers and say to them,(V) 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to(W) my God and your God.'" 18Mary Magdalene(X) went and announced to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord"—and that he had said these things to her.


sounds like a Doppelgänger or someone that just looks like jesus to me. Quality imagination in faking if they used someone else who looks like jesus imo.

Having an argument with a stubborn theist is the same as arguing with a wall.

Yes, it is annoying and pointless. Thats why if I dont think they have at least a certain level of intelligence I dont try to argue with them.

They were real to them in the divine sense; they weren't people. Of course, they tried to personify these figures, and hence you have all of the statues that they built.

You're baiting and switching here.

The claim was that Jesus was a real, historical person, who happened to have divine powers in this case. But that's where the similarity here between your comparison of Jesus and Zeus ends. Zeus was not a documented person in Ancient Greek history.

It's absurd to even try to justify the attempt at legitimizing their comparison on historic grounds.

So it would be more like the hundreds of emperor Gods who existed all throughout the world.

This is somewhat arguable.

I won't use 'arguments' at all.

I will simply tell them what did it for me - studying history and the beginnings of all organized religions as well as simple superstitions. If they look into that and it doesn't do the trick, I will leave them be.
BTW I am not an atheist - I think there might be a God. But I am pretty sure all the religions are just superstitions which won't survive this century.

I am a believer. I am a christian but do not try to impose my beliefs. I think that if there is a god(supreme being) he would not pick a certain religion(like Christianity) and only save those people. There are other religions which have many many more ppl then Christianity and i feel/think it is just a different face of the same supreme being.

so everyone is taking a different path/road but all leads to same place

+1 and still LMAO

Tell them, "God made Atheists too."

I'm confused. You open your post with claims of being a Christian, then follow it up with the negation of the most fundamental beliefs of one.

It is statements like the above post that cause so much confusion in discussions like these.

I was directed to this thread from a 2p2er who wanted my input on this subject. However, I'm somewhat confused as to what we are attempting to accomplish here.

I haven't seen anything compelling on either side of the fence.

Brief background...

[ ] Intelligent Religious person
[X] Religious person
[X] Believes Jesus was raised from the dead
[X] Knows the Bible somewhat well
[X] Extremely open minded
[X] Will not dodge relevant questions
[X] Will attempt to provide satisfactory answers to any Bible related questions
[X] Believes Theism to be more logical conclusion than Atheism
[ ] Believes that Christians go to heaven & non Christians go to Hell
[X] Believes the common view of Hell is not supported by Scriptures

This will become relevant later

[ ] Believes Grass Clippings go to Hell
[X] Will post more tomorrow

Number of RGT threads that accomplished anything = 0

This forum is about killing time talking about obsolete beliefs that will not survive this century.

actually what marleybob is saying makes a lot of sense (in my eyes, i'm an atheist) (well it doesn't really makes sense, but I can understand where he's coming from.)

He's probably saying he was raised in a Christian family, thus he's a christian.
But he's smart enough to realise that the coincidence of him being born in a christian family isn't enough to prove that the christians have got it right.

I have much much more respect for people like marleybob as an atheist
If the fundamental belief of being a Christian is only believing in the Christian God, then I hope you realise you're sending a looot of people to hell, just because they were born in the wrong country/family

and ps: i still find my grass argument freaking amusing and quite a legit question

Still after 3 pages and a few requotes no one tried and explain this one for me? Instead nitpicking my halfserious/halfsilly grass question

Hallelujah!!!! could not of said it better myself. Exactly what I meant/believe. Why would supreme being pick one religion out of the 100's and only save them? would make no sence... (IMO)

This is rather true. I remember growing up when I was still wishy washy on the whole thing, a friend challenged me to begin reading the bible and see if I was still a non-believer within a week. I read about 5 pages of genesis and was like "wtf is this ****? are you kidding me? THIS is your proof? If anything, all you did was further steer me AWAY!"

Perhaps I should have gone into more detail regarding my opposition to his statement. I'm not trying to place his belief system inside any structured religious ideals. I'm also not criticizing his beliefs nor will I ever. My only point in bringing it up was that when one dubs himself a "Christian" (or Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, etc. etc.) they are claiming to subscribe to a series of accepted beliefs. When one states "I'm a Christian", they often say so with limited knowledge of what that statement insinuates. Statements such as "I'm a Christian" and "I don't proselytize" are mutually exclusive. The simplest definition of "Christian" is to be a follower of Christ. Christ's entire life was dedicated to proselytizing. He even stated, among other reasons, that it was why he was sent to the earth (Luke 4:43). He also commands his followers (AKA - "Christians") to make disciples (Matthew 28:19).

Again, I'm not criticizing his beliefs. He's free to believe as he wishes. However, he is not free to title himself as a "Christian" when in the same sentence he states a belief which is contrary to the very definition of one. I would argue that he is no more "Christian" than you are Muslim or than I am Buddhist.

No one has addressed this issue because frankly it's a rather silly argument.

First, you must make a connection between two ideals before attributing value to a statement such as this. Just because you used the word "knowledge" twice does not make the knowledge of God dependent upon the knowledge of those living at the time the Bible was written.

Perhaps what you meant to state was that our UNDERSTANDING of God is limited to the knowledge of those living when the Bible was written. This is a much more accurate statement and is quite different than the one you proposed.

For what it's worth, scores of verses throughout the Bible address this issue: 1 Cor 3:19, 1 Cor 1:20, 1 Cor 1:25 to name a few.

Maybe he has a different interpretation on proselytizing and thinks those commandments were for the people Jesus was talking to at the time and not for modern man. Kind of like how no Christians give up their wealth because that commandment was for the people of that time.

Or maybe he thinks the Great Commission was an add on not even spoken by Jesus and Jesus didn't want to convert gentiles. Kind of like how his brother didn't.

For what it's worth, this is a teaching which originated from the Catholic Church. It is not entirely in line with what the scriptures actually teach. This whole Heaven or Hell belief system was formed by the Catholic Church to scare people into following the Government IMO. If they could get you to believe that God would send you to Hell for not playing by their rules, then controlling the people becomes a much simpler task. There are several words that are all translated into the word rendered "Hell" in most Bible translations. We find Hades, Gehenna, Sheol and Tartarus all rendered as "Hell" in the KJV. There is a reason the authors chose different words for "Hell" when writing, they are not synonyms.

However, what the Bible actually teaches is that there will be a resurrection of both the "righteous" and the "unrighteous" (and no, we don't get to decide which individuals belong to which category). (Acts 24:15).