http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...idered_deities

enjoy

OP -

I like this topic. How can we challenge beliefs (either our own or of others) that have strong emotional authorization?

For my Carpal \'Tunnel post, I hope to present the arguments that, in my experience, best challenge the authorization of dogmatic Christianity. But it will take me a long time to write.

I'll have to join the discussion again some other time, as I won't have time to get in a long religious debate this week. (lot's of statistics that I need to have done by the 15th).

I will say one thing though, since there were a lot of negative responses to the last thing I said.

In response to the argument that "yes, the disciples were willing to die for their beliefs, but so are Muslims and Mormans and followers of Jim Jones and David Koresh".

Put it this way; people will die for their religious beliefs if they sincerely believe them to be true, but people WON'T die for their religious beliefs if they know their beliefs are false.

Here's a quote from Lee Strobels "Case for Christ": "Most people have only their faith to tell them that their beliefs are true. Muslims, for example, believe that Allah revealed him self to Muhammad. But this revalation didn't happen in a public way that anyone could observe. So they could be wrong- and they have no way to verify it one way or another. But if they sincerely believe it's true, they might be willing to die for it.
The disciples, on the other hand, were in a position to know without a doubt whether Jesus had risen from the dead. They claimed that they saw him, talked wih him, and ate with him. If none of that really happened, certainly they wouldn't have let themselves be tortured to death for what they knew to be untrue!"

The Case for Christ is a very thought provoking book. If you are an Atheist and have not read it, please do. You have nothing to lose, and I would really like to hear what your contradictions are to the statements that Strobel makes.

As to the quote, it's clear that they indeed walked with Jesus after he was apparently dead. Now maybe you believe that he didn't die, and lived through the crucifiction... but that is a different story, and one that I don't have time to debate at this time. Anyone who would like to challenge me on my opinion that he did die can feel free to send me an instant message via AIM anytime after the 15th of this month. Screen name is Razz Fink.

As for now, I'm merely trying to establish that the disciples did not die for a lie. Therfor, Jesus did appear after he was proposed to be dead. The question is, was he ever dead. I'll leave that for another time.

so it's impossible for grass to go anywhere after it dies, but you can't answer where animals go? Reasoning behind this?

On another note, I take back what I said about "no one else has claimed to have resurrected". There have been people who have claimed it. But my opinion is that Jesus is the only one with sufficient evidence to support a real resurrection. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Animals have brains. Grass does not share traits with humans that dogs do. Dogs have brains, and they feel pain. Grass doesn't feel pain. That's what leads me to believe dogs (possibly) do go somewhere after death.

No I'm not implying that. I'm implying that someone will NOT die for a cause they know is FALSE.

Aah, so people will die if they sincerely believe it is true. Whether its true or not isn't the issue... what's important is if they believe its true. We're all in agreement.

No one is denying that some Christians died for their beliefs. Nor is anyone denying that people of other religions died for their beliefs.

From this we can conclude that "the willingness of people to die for a belief system has NO bearing on the truth of that system."

So the fact that people died for Christian beliefs is meaningless in assessing the truth of Christianity. So let's move on.

Its not a thought provoking book and objections to it have been done on this forum before. There's plenty of logical flaws in the book and misinformation.

Would the disciples have died if they hadn't seen Jesus after his death? Yes or no? You got the first half of my point but missed the second half.

quoting it again since you seem to have time now

Uhmm so yeah what my problem is, if a tree or a flower or a bug or even grass dies, and it doesn't go to heaven, it doesn't go to hell, where does it go then? It just stops existing? Now if that's a possibility, then why is it so hard to believe that a human can also stop to exist?

It isn't hard to believe. It's easy to believe. =)

I just believe there is more to it. You're taking the easy belief, not because you think it is more logical, but because it is easier. Nothing about your posts have contradicted anything I've said.

Friend, if you really think humans and grass are equal creations, there is no point in even arguing with you.

never said that

i'll just conclude grass just stops existing and dogs could be both and humans go to heaven and hell

(in your opinion)

good job avoiding my other question for the 2nd time btw

All the Bible states is that humans have an afterlife, unless I missed a part that says grass does to. I'm only going by the Bible. If you choose not to go by it, that's simply your choice.

then i guess you're the one going with the easy belief

Obviously it's easy not to believe, but that isn't not a good enough reason to have legitimate argument against it.

Of course, I'm not. It took me years to choose my opinion. It certainly doesn't take someone years to choose yours.

believing in God because a book said so? Easiest belief you can have

If you don't have enough reasons to believe, I can try to give you reasons. Then you can explain why you don't believe those reasons. And if you give me good reasons why you don't believe those reasons, then I will be an Atheist. But not now, I have homework to do. ttyl

sounds good, good luck studying

No, believing in God because a man came down, died and resurrected.

Seriously, I can't discuss this anymore or I'll never get my work done.

ty

whoaa this information must come from a reliable source

No less reliable than the source that says George Washington crossed the Delaware.

Seriously, I WILL kill myself if I say any more. gg lol

why is this significant? jesus resurrected vs washington and the delaware is not even remotely similar in the effect or in the amount of evidence we should demand for belief...

a random historical fact about an ex president vs the man that potentially holds the key to my souls eternal future...i should think that in order to believe the latter i would need much more evidence than the former...