If I asked you to do something and you didn't want to and I did one or more of those things to make you do it, would it not be bullying? Why is it any different if the victim is a child?

Hmmm..... I think it's more likely that it's because it's either never occurred to them not to, or that pressure/influence from peers, authority figures in their lives like parents, and the fact that X religion is predominant in their culture creates a situation where even if it occurs to them to question what they're being 'taught', that isn't strong enough to lead to them seriously consider abandoning it in favour of an alternative (assuming of course that they've been exposed to alternatives in a non-biased manner).

All , or some, of those factors may lead to them 'wanting' to follow their parents but I think you skipped a couple of crucial steps to get to that point in their decision making. We all need a reason to want something, what makes children want to follow a particular religion?

Why do we all take for granted that it's a decision that they even have to make?

The child may think that they are making a free choice to follow the religion of the parent but after years of bullying and coersion are they really making a free choice?

If I bully my child into believing that Microsoft is the devil and that Apple is the best thing ever and on their birthday I give them a choice between a Windows or a Mac laptop, which one will they choose?

This is a non-question because bullying has not been established in the debate that I'm assuming you want to have about children and religion. If bullying has occurred, then I'm sure that most people would agree that it's wrong and the result is probably irrelevant to that. OTOH, there may be some moral viewpoint that can argue that if the end result of the bullying is 'good', then the bullying is justified but that would just be a huge digression IMO.

Bullying may occur wrt to religion but I don't think it's reasonable to say that the majority of children are bullied into believing one thing over another. Have you considered using 'urged to believe' instead of 'bullying'? I don't think many people would argue that 'urged to believe' is wrong, and then you can get to the important part of this question which is about whether or not there's actually anything wrong with urging any particular belief on a child.

The problem is bullying is the incorrect term. It implies the child wishes something different but is threatened against their will, the coercion is much more subtle than that.

I think it's dangerous to start assuming that children are being bullied by their parents but we should be aware of the social forces that lead to someone following their parent's religion.

Sure my pleasure, but you may still heavily disagree with me,(as a side note I have come to the conclusion that there may be people that never agree Islam a religion of peace regardless of my argument) In which case you are entitled to your opinion. Although I disagree with you, I respect you.

Anyways, take what you would like from the following. No matter what any man says their is a connection and similarity between these 3 religions of Abraham... Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

"Abraham plays a role in three world religions: in Judaism, as the founder of the special covenant relationship between the Jewish people and God; for Christians, his faith made him the prototype of all believers; and for Mohammad, the prophet of Islam, Abraham's belief separated "Islam", submission to God, from the Jewish Torah"

Judasim- (Genesis 26:5) "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws" (Mishnah, end of Kiddushin).

Christianity- "The Roman Catholic Church calls Abraham "our father in Faith" in the Eucharistic prayer of the Roman Canon"

And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Romans 4:22


Islam- The Quran contains multiple references to Abraham, his life, prayers and traditions and has a whole chapter dedicated to the name Ibrahim.

-Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers.
— Quran, sura 18 (Al-Kahf), ayat 22

We see a great connection between Islam and Judaism in the Quran, relating to the Torah, more folks could be aware of this.

rofl

"May god have mercy on your soul"



So you say you are "not a practicing anything" If so, then why did you say the following?


I just don't understand how you can praise the Bible yet you have not said one good thing about the Quran.

Edit; I will also ask critics of Islam to respond to a the following posts of mine http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=172

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=174

The use of bullying is never justified

My position is why using tactics that would be considered bullying and intimidation if used by an adult on another adult but become parenting if used on a child?

Islam an Abrahamic religion and the patriarch of Islam Ishmael and what the bible says about him

Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

11 The angel of the Lord also said to her:

“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a]
for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward[b] all his brothers.”

Prophecy=fulfilled

The problem is many aspects of parenting would fall under your 'bully' descriptor

What if the kid doesn't want to do their chores?

Are you going to kidnap them and imprison them in their bedroom against their consent?

Are you going to steal from them and take away their possessions?

Hate to state the obv with the above but your resentment of religion is clouding your logic

Examples of Muslim majority nations being bastions of religious freedom

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...us-hatred.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...h-attack-video

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/wo...stan.html?_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/wo...bing.html?_r=0

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...llage/2781763/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2...a-Syria-rebels (remember 8:12 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-crowd.html (also remember 8:12 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them, in the full video the crowd is chanting allahu akbar during the beheading so thekids conclusion that Islam doesn't fuel violence is under protest)

The interpretation of these verses by Muslim majority country leaders

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

And

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/egyptia...-killing-jews/

A "learned priest" advocating rape

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-t...omen-in-syria/

You negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement with your child

Treat them like human beings and not like a dog that needs house trained.

Your self serving cherry picking of politically motivated instances not related to the true meaning of Islam is out of control. Please understand the following, 113 of the 114 chapters of the Quran discuss Islam as a religion of peace. Do you think 1.5 billion Muslims want to kill you?

wrt to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and Al Qaeda offshoots, these groups have a secular strategic goal to remove foreign forces from territory that these groups consider to be their land. Do you understand this?

The greatest majority of representatives of Islam and its prophet would question your values irt viewing Muslims as equals. Some scholars suggest that if Europe was ran by an Islamic majority during WW2, 6 Million jews would have lived. There are factual cases of Muslims who sheltered Jews during ww2.

Islam is responsible for advancing education, math, science, algorithms. Without Islam and the people it produced, we would not be as advanced as we our today.

You have become desperate in your generalizations and smearing of Islam, why is it such an extraordinarily small amount of Muslims are doing what you say they are?

Also Osama Bin Laden agrees with what you are doing itt Coolerboy, in the sense of labeling Islam as a religion of violence and war against civilians . Yet you ignore the massive majority of Muslims who heavily disagree with your absurd misconceptions of the Quran, you continue to seek to divide and you would be banned from entering the UK based on your anti-Muslim views.

If only God had a way to communicate what true Islam was we wouldn't have so many problems.

Also if I ran Germany in WW2 the Jews would have lived, and I would have consolidated power instead of over extending myself and invading Russia.

This does not address my post at all or back up your claim.

The people who past a verse in the Quran and then post some conservative fundamentalist terrorist group are using the same methodology that the terrorists use and then somehow claim they got it right.

Grow up, and be a bit more sophisticated than that.

I can quote a verse in the bible, claim it's bad, and then claim that that verse essencializes Christianity. But no one would claim all Christians are blood thirty violent people, but you could say various interpretations are more violent and others are more peaceful and some just don't care that much.

Likewise the_kid the "this goes against True Islam" is a bit troublesome as well because of course various other groups think they are the True Islam, some with radically different ideas.

The greatest majority of representatives of Islam and its prophet would question your values irt viewing Muslims as equals. Some scholars suggest that if Europe was ran by an Islamic majority during WW2, 6 Million jews would have lived.


Just wow. That in addition to what donk correctly pointed out in you saying that militant Islamist groups have a "secular view" are hilarious and have propelled you into a state of denial that few apologists will ever know. Congratulations.

I think history proves you wrong in this point,

-This fascinating documentary shows how Jews were protected by Muslims in North African Muslim majority countries facing occupation or under occupation by Germany during WW2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JxL1idcI8o

probably due to their Muslim beliefs.

- In Morocco/ Algiers the Imans issued a edict for any Muslim believefr to reject the taking of Jewish land. "Every Muslim in algeirs accepted the edect"

probably due to their Muslim beliefs

-In Tunisa under Nazi occupation, the newly crowned Prince did "what he could to resist or delay anti jewish measures"

probably due to their Muslim beliefs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_re..._the_Holocaust


The Spanish Inquisition of 1492 including an edict, which ordered Jews to leave Spain. Subsequently Muslim Majority nations took them in, where the Jews did paid a jyza tax (we pay taxes here in the US) but were not persecuted.

Probably due to their Muslim beliefs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

to those reading

try and excuse some of the grammatical errors, some of posts my are sent via iphone.