Faith does not lead to truth.

I expect I would have written a more thoughtful original response if I was responding to someone who was actually engaged, such as yourself.

It is interesting that prophecies do not often come up in the more intellectual discussions. The last time I can remember there being a thread in RGT, it had little activity. What do you think of my comment that prophecy should have the potential to be an incredibly powerful argument, but it is neglected by almost all, bar the fundamentalists? Even Nostradamus' generic predictions come up more often than anything from the Bible!

If you are up for it, I would be really keen to hear what your thoughts are on the Heaven (or Hell) question I outlined earlier: what have you thought about re: the experience of Heaven (or Hell). Is it a physical place, does it have a location? Just how would you describe it? I appreciate that it is only going to be guesswork. I doubt you think "streets of gold" is literal but if it is physical, are there any kinds of structure? Surely every Christian has spent time thinking about the most important event that can happen to them?

But it's just my curiosity, you don't have to answer if it makes you uncomfortable.

That’s fair, my responses on here often differ depending on who I’m corresponding with.

Prophecies as proof of God run into the objections I already named, about the dates of the writings, but it’s also that differ with interpretation.

If you’re really interested, there are some debates online where Jewish scholars argue with Christian ones about the prophecies that point to the Messiah. You’ll get a good sense for the debated viewpoints, one which accepts Christ, and one which rejects him.

Heaven is a tough topic. Much of Christian theology is divided, and this topic is no different. Although, I haven't spent much time, if any, thinking about it. It may sound strange, but it's against my nature to be so optimistic and to contemplate a world where I'm at peace.

My understanding is that the Bible describes it as both physical and spiritual, whether this is simply to relate ideas which are foreign to us is arguable.

A couple of things that would point to it being physical is that for starters, the theme of the resurrection of our bodies, like that of Christ, is a very dominant theme. Paul refers to our bodies on earth as “tents”, and after the resurrection as “buildings”. It’s shown to be an upgrade, a temporary dwelling to a permanent one. There are many references to this type of transformation, which alludes to a physical change.

The other thing that a few writers speak about of a New Heaven, and New Earth. There are few reason to believe that these are spiritual not physical, especially considering that Revelations goes as far to giving dimensions.

Arguments for heaven being spiritual are also popular, including that God himself is described as a spiritual being. Also, there is nothing to stop someone from interpreting these physical references as mere allegory for us to understand something that is intangible. How else could we describe a place that is not physical if our language is inherently material?

If heaven exists, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that it is beyond our understanding, that “no mind can conceive” of it. What is stated explicitly is that there will no longer be sin and that we will see God as he is.

As for Hell, that’s probably even a more difficult subject than heaven. I spent a little time researching the different views, and have been enlightened by Edward Fudge, and his view on Conditionalism. The view surprisingly does have a lot of biblical support, but is not without problems. The main one being the verse in Revelations which describes torment.

Again, what is explicitly stated is that Hell is a separation from God.

God's omnipresence confounds me. Firstly, when God is described as being unable to be in the presence of sin (is God harmed by sin?) with heaven being a place without sin. Yet sin, and God, are everywhere else.

Secondly, that there can be separation from this omnipresent God, hmm.

But this could lead us all over the place! Thx for your input

This could be another point in favour for annihilationism.

4004 BC According to Bible Scholars. At that time there was approximately 1 or 2 people on the planet. I don't suppose anything, but what I do believe is that there is no evidence of any civilization before that time. There are claims by some people that there were, but that's all they are is claims. The evidence actually supports the Bible. I don't need to disbelieve the evidence.

Oh, you're one of those...

Something that has been bothering me about the bible. According to the 1st commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" or similar.

To me this may invalidate Jesus, LDS, ..., if there is only one god Jesus is another god, technicality we are all sons of god. God may have given Jesus a vision, but he may have given Elon Musk a vision too. Furthermore, the bible says fire is one of the worst ways to die yet Jesus got out easy and was put on a cross.

Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. There is only 1 God, but God has three personalities within Him. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Yes, I am one of those, who actually studies both sides rather than one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natufian_culture

They are basing the dates on unreliable dating sources. Radio Carbon dating is no accurate.

Tell me all you know about carbon dating.

I think he already did.

B-E-A-UTIFUL!!!

Oh hell, I'll bite. What is the argument for carbon dating being inaccurate?

Allow me - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=carbon+dating+debunked.

Well, I wanted to see if he had an answer. I have used carbon dating and it seems to work quite well.

Dinosaur Carbon 14 Doesn't Work Evidence Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvWdWbLcJvQ

Paddington, do you know what someone that understands radiometric dating would say to dismiss your claim?

THIS VIDEO WILL EXPLAIN HOW THE NEW TESTIMENT OF THE BIBLE WAS CANONIZED (CAME TO BE):

WHOLE VIDEO:

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=D76LD7NX

OH WE ALL CAPS NOW

Nope, just introducing that video. You should watch it.

I probably shouldn't.

Is it at all related to the carbon dating discussion you just brushed aside?

Story of Angel and Cousin Sarah


Several years ago, My cousin was playing with a lighter in his bedroom. He caught a newspaper or comic book or something on fire and threw it on his bed. There were several people sleeping there. The whole house went up in flames. Everyone got out except for my 3 year old cousin sarah. They had written her off as dead. The whole house was in flames and filled with smoke. An off duty fireman happened to be driving by and saw the smoke. He stopped to help. He looked into the bedroom window and saw her sitting under the window with her hands on her head. He pulled her out and she was burned and has some scars to this day. He asked her how she knew to come over to that window and sit on the ground. She said that the man in the fire told her "Don't be afraid, to go over to the window sit down and put your hands over your head and face". Years later, she recounted her story with me. She said that the man had no face, light shining from it, he was 3 feet tall and dressed in white. He was floating in the corner of the room. My Grandparents were deeply committed Christians. Often times my Grandmother would be up all night, having trouble sleeping, praying for the safety of the family. At the same exact time that the fire was going on, my grandmother was several miles away sleeping in her bed. She heard a voice that told her "There's been a fire, Liz and the kids got out ok". A few minutes later, my Grandfather got the call on the phone "There's been a fire, liz and the kids got out ok" He tried to tell her what they said, but she already knew. The reason that God Spoke to her, I believe, is because it was HER prayer that the Lord was answering. Otherwise, my cousin would have died in the fire.