if those beleifs are based on nothing but faith? Am I right in saying that if you have a belief that is based on nothing but faith, then whether or nor that belief is true, is nothing but sheer luck? Maybe I'm wrong about this.

But if what I'm saying is right, then how can God fairly reward/punish based on whether or not our beleifs are actually true? Many religions will say that God will do exactly this. Is that how religion works? Just have a belief based on faith and if it happens to be true you will be rewarded, regardless of how you came to have that belief?

Well I cannot speak for other religions, but Christianity is not based on the type of faith you speak of. So...

Why is Christianity different? There are many Christians who just have faith in Jesus without giving it much thought and without really looking into their beliefs or any other religions. Its seems to me as if they feel as long as their faith happens to be true, God will be happy with them.

But what you are saying here is that you feel it is unfair that some people do not have to work as hard. Isn't that correct?

Yes that is correct. How is it not unfair? Have they done something good in a previous life or something, so that in this life God makes it easier for them to become Christian?

Of course, this assumes that Christianity is true. What if the Christians who failed to put ANY work into looking at other religions are wrong?

This doesn't have to be just Christian God vs. No God.

Not true for all religions. Definitely true if you worship the genocidal God of Abraham i.e. the God of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

But it's more than that; people born outside the influence of Christianity are many times less likely to ever accept the Bible or the word of Jesus. Thus, by your standards, it's not just harder for some - but it's actually much less likely that they will avoid damnation.

If everyone got into heaven, but it was harder for some than for others, that wouldn't be too troubling. Yes, it would annoy me that some people just get a free ride while others must go through hell, but if everyone is happy in the end I'd be fine with it. However, your belief system suggests that (based on the fact that people in other nations are unlikely to adopt Christianity even if they are exposed to it) some people have only a tiny chance of getting into heaven, because they were unlucky enough to be born in the "wrong" place.

And some of these people have extremely hard lives, it's understandable that they have trouble placing their trust in God. But according to your beliefs, they will be destroyed and those hard lives will make up their whole realities. And this is, according to your beliefs, God's best solution. This is as it should be.

According to the Christian belief system, what is "fair" is that everyone goes to hell. Every person has sinned since the beginning of time, and even one tiny sin warrants damnation. (Many denominations also believe that sin is also inherited from your parents and ancestors, so even babies are born damned, but I assure you, that's a topic for another thread.)

So, the fact that, due to The Fall, anyone at all gets into heaven is a gracious bonus.

Now, that of course opens tons of other discussions about God's original plan, if God knew we would sin when he made us, and if so, what that says about God's character, and many others as well.

Just pointing out that from the Christian perspective, the statement isn't,

"Not everyone gets an equal shot at heaven, that's not fair!"

it's

"Some people don't have to go to hell like everyone deserves, that sure is kind of God!"

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is the worst thing about Christianity. Plus it's something of a perversion of justice. If God cares enough about iron-fisted justice that he's willing to allow hell in the first place, then why doesn't he care enough about justice to send everyone to their deserved punishment?

Based on the Christian standpoint, we are all Hitler. That is, what Hitler deserves is only incrementally different from what we observe (if at all) - it's hell. And so if any person goes to heaven, that's equivalent to Hitler going to heaven (remember, we all rightly deserve hell, that's how bad we are). So for God to save some and not others is always logically equivalent to "Hitler goes to heaven, but Stalin goes to hell." Which is not a type of reasoning that puts my mind at ease wrt Christian justice.

I know a lot of nice people. I think they deserve the best. Excuse me for not believing they deserve destruction and/or torture. That goes against every ounce of feeling and compassion I have. People frustrate me constantly, and disappoint me constantly, and in that I'm similar to Christians. The difference is, I'm disappointed because I think we all deserve better. I think the daughter deserves better than to be molested by her father, I think the Sudanese kid deserves better than to starve, I think the Iranian woman deserves better than a stoning. And that's why it's so hard to see what happens in the world, that's what makes it unjust: people deserve better.

Yes, isn't it remarkable that the single largest factor that will determine who is right is where you were born?

There are thousands of different religions and only one can be right. Your choice of religion is 99% determined by the religion of your family. Apparently salvation is hereditary.

Kindness is its own reward. Jesus said to find faith, wisdom and spiritual growth in love. Not only in being loved, but more by loving others and yourself. Believe in love, or you and humanity indirectly (or directly if you believe in interconnectedness) will suffer to no end. Suffering to no end sounds earily like hell.

you can make an educated guess (so, its not sheer luck)

Well the word faith is actually misleading. Biblically it simply means someone's belief. Trust and Believe are better words to use and they are easier for the mind to understand.

God definatley likes that people would believe in Him whom they have not actually seen. Meaning Him. Because the way God has set up life is based on a spiritual principle called believing. People succeed or fail in life by their own believing. When it comes to the word of God believing takes on a different realm. The spiritual realm. God via his word directs man and then man has the choice to believe the direction or not. Mostly this direction is very general and not specific. Like what should I eat ect..God set this law of believing up not just fro Christians, every one lives by it even if they dont want to. Believing is the determining factor of everyones lives, it is how they succed in any endeavor in life.


Honestly believing is very important to God but Love is more important and Christians are rewarded by their walk of love and believing both. Not blind believing though. Believing that is based solely on the word of God or what God teaches.

People want blind faith or discuss blind faith. There is no such thing as blind faith. If you believe in God it is not blind believing. Something in the senses realm has caused you to make a decsion that God has to exist. Whether it be the fact of the immenseness of the universe or creation itself. It would not be blind believing. Some people do require more tangible evidence of God then they are actually going to get. God has set things up in life for us to believe but He is definatley not going to make a car appear before your eyes to prove that He exist.

Pletho

So all Christians have made a better educated guess than all non-Christians?

I'm not talking about a belief in GOD, I'm talking about belief in a specific God.

I dont know, but of course, they think they have. Why would someone practice religion B if they think religion A is more likely to be your (OP's) definition of the 'true religion' or 'true belief' ?

I would be surprised if any Christian actually said that all Christians have made a better educated guess. I mean, its obvious that there are MANY Christians who have not really looked into their beliefs and who have not really looked into any other religions, they just have faith that they are right. But being right about something does not automatically deserve a reward. Also, if Christians are making a better guess, then why is it that 80% of India are not doing so good but 70% are the USA are? Coincidence?

I am talking about the one and only true God rewarding people. Again it boils down to a basis a foundation for truth. What are your beliefs based on? What is your foundation for truth? Your own thoughts? Anothers thoughts? God's Word? Allah?

What is the foundation thebasis that a person stands on for truth. From the ture God's perspective it is His Word and only His word. He rewards people who base their beliefs on His word. Not blindly though, you gotta read it, see it, hear it first to believe it.

The word Faith is a really muddied confusing word that is thrown around by many Christians. It is in the Bible but it does not mean what people (Mainstream Christians) say it means. They say take it on faith, as if you blindly have to accept something. That is not what it means.

Now if your post is relating to any god other than the true god then honestly who cares what these false god's promise, its all a lie anyway. Allah promises vigins in heaven and who knows what other crazy religions promise.

God promises eternal life in a new spritual body, that has unlimited scope and activity. Perfection for all. Individuality for all. ect... on and on. makes a hell of lot more sense than getting virgins for bowing your head down with your but up in the air and saying Allah Bala Busshka 1000 times.

Which kinda reminds me of saying hale marys 100 times to be forgiven, more nonsense.

Pletho

People in India probably think that 80% of them are doing good and 70% of USA are not doing so good... see what i mean?

Faith means putting your trust in Jesus that He will save. You won't put that trust in Him unless you believe certain things about Him, but it is the trust that is rewarded. Holding the beliefs without the trust is worthless.

Do you have any objective evidence to back up this absolute claim? (Please don't appeal to your holy book, because the other holy books also make the same claims)

God does not reward or punish people based on just their beliefs. Anyone that thinks they can just believe and automatically be guaranteed heaven is making a huge mistake.


Agreed.

That is how school works isnt it? (being right = reward, being wrong = punishment) as in, more points vs less points on an exam for example

and i mean, how that relates is that teachers are 'testing' their students, as i want to say some religions say God or gods are 'testing' us?