WHAT??? Stop & think about what you just said.

The 144,000 are messianic jews that come to know Christ during the Tribulation. At this point, Jesus is about to re-establish his kingdom on earth so there won't be any need for these "generations" you speak of.

For the 2 schools I've heard strong arguments for both so I don't claim a position at this time. I think the safest position is to strive after sanctification then the whole question becomes personally moot...its still extremely important but I have a chance of getting over it if I focus on my actions and recommend others to do likewise.

I do know about the leaven bread thing. But think about it in loaf increments. Leaven is something much more to beware of inside established congregations and established Christian communities. Muslims haven't been taught proper precepts regarding Christ so how can you worry about leavening when they aren't even Christian dough to begin with and they are under extreme duress.

There are 66 books in the bible so I'd have to look at the 144,000 reference again because its not mentioned in Revelation only. It was mentioned in the OT also.

well then its just a logical conclusion that nobody is able to die until they have become a christian. so what are we even arguing about.

*groans* You totally didn't get that.

*groans again* You totally didn't get that either. I wasn't talking about Muslims.

This is amusing on so many levels I cannot begin to count them.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Splendour....

I think you have a replacement theology view of the bible. That Christians replace Jews.

Judaism is the root. Christians are grafted in.

Study up on replacement theology. I don't believe we're under it.


Christ is to be supremely glorified it doesn't mean the Jews were ever going straight to hell they will still be judged like everyone else. They will still have a judgment on their deeds. Only a specific rejection of Christ gets them in trouble but most Jews from group pressure never examine Christ's claims. (Think about it...the Jews had to be veiled to exist til this day and establish Israel in fulfillment of the prophecies. God clearly intended a separate group known as the Jews).

Replacement theology is most probably one of the reasons for the persecution of the Jews throughout history. Because it permits Christians to see themselves in a special class. We are but it doesn't permit us to classify everyone who isn't as an automatic "go to hell".

This blogger has a similar idea to mine:

http://brendamayer.blogspot.com/2007...g-to-hell.html

Btw Brad1970 I agree with a lot of your other statements just not your position on judgment I feel its one that has gotten distorted over time by the churches. So sorry if I offended you.

The reason for the distortion: 1) Christ is suppose to be glorified above all else and; 2) The importance of the next world over this one (and our eternal fate) tends to a replacement theology mind set. Its such a huge advantage to have Christ as your mediator in heaven that Jesus himself stresses "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life". It doesn't mean God doesn't have a way to compensate for those who through circumstances never got to even hear about Christ.

An explanation of replacement theology:

http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

ROFL

I do not believe in replacement theology. I don't know where you get that. Christ is the only way. I don't care if you are Jew or Gentile, Jesus is the messiah. Period.

Yes, dead Jews (prior to Jesus lifetime) will be judged on how well they kept the law. Orthodox Jews today deny Jesus & still try to live under the law. Christians aren't under the law.

I certainly hope you read your opponents at a poker game better than you have read me from my posts.

You didn't offend me. I'm trying to get you to understand that your "don't judge" type theology is dangerous.

If you think this life on earth is more important than your spiritual life, you really need to re-evaluate Splenda.

I've never said that Jesus didn't judge them by their deeds if they've never heard of him. And I don't mean another faith either. I mean the pigmy in the rainforest who's never seen another living soul type of person. But this is not clearly spelled out in the Bible either and I'm not God so its nothing more than speculation on my part.

Thanks for the Splenda remark.

You showed some real Christian attitude there.

You're under a replacement theology position pure and simple.

WE don't judge. God judges on FATE JUDGMENT.

We only use judgment in following who we associate with and we use Spirit in discerning the Gospel more correctly.

Splendour, sorry, typo

Do you have peanut butter in your ears because you sure aren't listening. I'm not under a replacement theology. I believe that every promise God has made to the Jews will be fulfilled but at the same time every knee will bow & every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. That includes the Jews.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say but John 7:24 tells us to judge with righteous judgment.

There's a problem though with the non-Messianic Jews since Jesus.
Paul says they were deliberately veiled by God.

God's not going to deliberately veil them then send them to hell because God loves everyone and sent his Son into the world to save it.

He's not going to deny his saving grace to his chosen people.

Jesus himself said the people that go to heaven are those that do his father's will in heaven.

A Jew can do God's OT will and that's what they are doing I believe if they actually act in accordance with his will.

A Jew that studies Jesus though should most probably convert to Messianic Judaism because Jesus is the Messiah and he now has knowledge of him because he didn't bow to group pressure.

I think there's 2 kinds of judgment.

God's judgment on our destiny to heaven/New Jerusalem or hell.

AND

Human judgment in pursuing God and trying to stay holy (some churches call it holiness some call it sanctification). We actually can never be truly holy only Jesus perfects us through his precious blood but we have to make the effort or our faith is in vain.

So you should be careful in this world. It constantly reaches out to corrupt and pull Christians back into the muck that Jesus pulled us out of.

scripture please.

He doesn't deny it to anyone.

No, he said to believe in the one he (God) has sent. John 6:29

You realize we're under the New Covenant, not the old, right?

Most probably?? What's that supposed to mean? That's whats wrong with your posts, you need more conviction in your arguments. Most times you're too wishy washy.

Read Romans Paul says the Jews are "veiled for a time".

I read the quote from Jesus in Luke I believe. You can google it.

Yes we're under the New one but I don't know about Messianic Jews because they are Jews by birth and race. When you're a Jew and you study Christ you have to come to a conclusion about who he is.

Some Jews accuse Messianic Jews of really being Christians.

In Zechariah it says the Jews will recognize Christ and repent in the future. See verse 12:10
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=76;