I have a friend tracing back the history of man through the writings of H.P.B., but I def want to do it in accordance to accepted archeology etc. I like the cynics and people from different beliefs to help this so I don't get mixed up and delusion about facts.

This thread is about the history of man and not what someone said it was. However my best start is what Helenas work pointed to which was the Vedas from ancient India 20k+ish years ago. Apparently they were written about and pointed to in the Upanishads. The vedas need a key to understand them (brahamas?).

The secrets they held were partially (or totally) brought across to egypt by the yudaeus (can't remember the spelling).

I wonder if anyones religious belief either agree or disagree with this. For example if this is true then Bible both old and new should support this.

I think she points out there was supposedly arks built in many civilizations, doesn't science support a history of great flooding after the last maximal glacial period?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum

The 20k year stamp seems extremely ill-informed. 20k years is well before archaeologists almost universally place the agricultural revolution (around 10000BC) in the neolithic age. Small isolated nomadic cultures is rarely the birthplace of sophisticated religious works/myths.

Some quick research showed that the Vedas are usually viewed as composed by the Aryan culture in the Vedic period of ancient India (about 1700 to 1200BC). Link

Other than that, the oldest writings in the world are generally agreed upon to be cuiform writings from ancient Sumer (ca 3200BC).

Outside of the most generic "sea levels rose", all other details don't match, for instance the time scale or the necessary size to include two of every animal, etc.

small isolated nomadic culture does not seem to describe the indus valley civilizations.
thx ill have to address this later.
do we feel this is before or after the indus valley script?

Yes for the old testament, but in helenas works she explains why, and part of her explanation includes other religions so I'm curious if they support they ancient civilizations as well and there thoughts on 20kish + years.

The other thought is would the giant change in ocean level change our orbit etc.

A giant ice age also suggests our history is now under water (melted ice) doesn't it?

Ok so to be more specific (or less in a sense) the vedas were know to be written down in the timeframe you suggested, but the teachings are much older and talk of times much older (20k+ etc.). They are essential music start to finish and must be preserved that way so they are passed down orally. I skimmed a lot but I think they were written down in two distinct ways that put together preserve the musical 'notes' as the pronunciation and even metre are important.

No, but those civilizations are some 6000-7000 years younger than the neolithic revolution.

As far as I saw, their composition is generally attributed to about the same time period as that of their writing. For that matter, their sophisticated content simply do not match any known culture that predates writing.

I think the only thing you got going for the 20k year claim is "lol, you can't disprove it with absolute it certainty".... which is true. By that metric, I can't disprove that they weren't composed by Austrian dwarves in 1921 either.

Is H.P.B. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky ? It isn't like she's a household name, let alone her initials.

For the record she was clairvoyant and as such had the ability to perceive the past and was the first who attempted to bring to light occultism to everyman.

That being said, she railed against Judaism and Christianity, being affected by eastern orientalists who had designs such that the western exegesis would be subservient to eastern thought. Yes, there are political/social machinations in these societies which can have basis in self centered egoism (not all).

Short history is she founded the Theosophical Society along with I believe Alcott(?). Her well known tomes (in some circles) are "The Secret Doctrine" and "Isis Unveiled".

Also Rudolph Steiner taught the German section of the Theosophical Society and in fact was the head of the esoteric section of the entire Theosophical Society and also the "expert" in Christianity . This was in the early years of the 20th century after Blavatsky's death.

There was a falling out with the leaders of the Theosophical Society and the German section, particularly Steiner; and the Germans were expelled. From then on the Anthroposophical Society was born though Steiner never taught anything other than Anthroposophy or Spiritual Science.

Germane to the "falling out" was that leading theosophists( Anne Besant,et.al.) were saying that a man born in India was the reincarnation of Christ Jesus and he could very well have been Krishnamurti (not sure here). Steiner took exception but there were others of similar nature as bones of contention.

The thread of Blavatsky's anti Judaic and anti Christian attitude manifested with the falling out. Yes, even in these circles it is possible for egos to become egotistical and therefore fall into "error" in their seership. Blavatsky was a great "seer" whose life history is a fascinating story of truculent emotionality laid upon a natural gift of clairvoyance.

Yes you are correct in the sense that the oldest veda was written as they moved out of there nomadic state I believe.

We still have yet to read the indus valley writings.

Yes I spoke to soon, obviously, as I am not educated enough on the subject. I will have to read the vedas, the brahamas, upanishads and all the supported readings.

In this thread I'm curious if any other religion support any of this or if they totally disagree. I'm sure unstudied peoples would instantly disagree, but I wonder if say very well learned Jewish (Rabbi) priest might smile and say yes I know of this let me explain etc...

Ha sorry yes, shes a household name where I live.
This will only turn out to be true in a certain sense. I think she rails against the destruction of histories carried out in the name of the lord, done against the natives of the americas, and the indians of India and frankly all around the world. She seems to accept Christ as a deity, and the the Jewish scriptures are partial records and truths of the ancients. She also suggests if the knowledge and secrets she revealed were given out at the wrong time Christian/Judaic society would destroy them, which seems fair (also suggest her knowledge in the wrong hands would subject the world to unimaginable violence and destruction).



Yes surely nobody would agree vs that.



Yes this is a whole other story but Krishnamurti denounced his background, all he was taught, and dissolved the whole order he was supposed to represent, he went around the world teaching a total unconditioning of the mind. We can definitely show, especially when attaching this thread to the one 'spiritual truths' that he indeed was the world teacher prophesied and prob understand why people thought he had turned his back on the group he represented, was still the one Helena would have foretold.

I don't think anti Jud and anti Christ is the correct way to put it, I think when we look at the world history and see parts of these religions that cut out that history we can't be called 'anti' just for exposing it. I haven't read anything of here thats anti anything, just clarification. That being said I hope we are all against the parts of religion that are like the crusades etc.

Thx you pointed at some things I will study.