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The Historicity of Jesus Christ The Historicity of Jesus Christ

01-05-2023 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckychess
C. S. Lewis addressed this in Mere Christianity (pp.54-56)


I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about
Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be
God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of
things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the
level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You
must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or
something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon;
or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising
nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not let that open to us. He did not
intend to.
I have seen that CS Lewis passage many times and with all due respect it is a false dichotomy. Someone can simultaneously be both a lunatic AND have some good and valuable ideas. The two are not mutually exclusive. Jesus of Nazareth might well have been deluded about being divine, but still had some valuable moral insights.
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01-05-2023 , 03:26 PM
The historical evidence of Christ Jesus according to Harnack , a famous Lutheran theologian/philosopher could, at most, fit on less than a quarto page of script. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_von_Harnack

Consequent to mankind's progression into singular a materiality, or sense bound knowledge, the knowledge of the spirit was lost to mankind. Therefore the professors gleefully stripped Christ Jesus of any spiritual consideration and led modern man into only Jesus, the man, a high man, but man nonetheless.

Differences between gospels and lack of historicity , through their eyes, stripped the Divine, not only in man but all of nature into a scientific thought process of abject ponderability. The Protestant professors, especially, became scientific mountebanks in this movement into an ignorant materiality.

Aphoristically , at the Baptism by John in the 30th year of Jesus of Nazareth's life the Christ Being entered into Jesus of Nazareth and walked the earth for 3 years until the Event of Golgotha. In ancient times this might be considered that an Avatar came into the body of the man, Jesus, but yes, this event was beyond ancient perceptions as the Word, the Logos, entered into the man, Jesus, and subsequently died on the Cross.

Only mankind experienced Death to this time and the Creative God, Christ, went through Death as a Grand Cosmic Sacrifice. Subsequently The Christ Being entered into the Earth as the Spirit of the Earth into the hearts of ALL Men and works as an IMPULSE which is within Man unto his future, the future of further existence.

A Man works through his judgement, aided by the Christ Being as a template to the future of human kind. Mankind is only at the beginnings of the Christian Impulse which is in the inner activity of Man; consciously and subconsciously the human being realizes this Christ within and in this a new historicity is spiritually created.
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10-25-2023 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Point of Information:

The Talmud, which is essentially the "Bible" of Rabbinic Judaism, has a lot to say about Jesus. (And none of it is flattering, as you might suspect.)

Very true

I've never met a Jew he didn't believe Jesus existed. We just don't believe he was the Messiah
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10-26-2023 , 09:53 PM
When do they say, "Oh, these are all religions. All come from the same place. They're stories?"
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10-27-2023 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter2Ego
[color=#000040]PERSON #1:
Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian

DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120

Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile

What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.
Does anyone think it's at all possible that people even like Tacitus were just repeating common knowledge, or did they for sure know Jesus was executed by Pilate? The gospels honestly look made up. Like how can you write something like that from memory? I think the NT letters could just be manufactured religious material as well, not actual letters. Someone like Tacitus saying Jesus was executed by Pilate gives his existing some legitimacy, but if he's just repeating common knowledge from a position of authority it doesn't mean anything. I don't really know what to think to be honest, but I lean slightly towards there being some legitimacy towards Jesus existing. Jesus seems made up though.
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10-27-2023 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter2Ego
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.

Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.


PERSON #1:
Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian

DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120

Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile

What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.



PERSON #2:
Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian

DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD

Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)

What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.

Highlights on Flavius Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died).



PERSON #3:
[color=#000040]Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor

DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD

Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians

What He Said: Referred to Jesus Christ as a "god of the Christians."

Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.


DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming ]
The word Christ or chrustus would not have been used in tacticus time. Nobody in the area spoke Greek at that time which is where the word comes from
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10-27-2023 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
The word Christ or chrustus would not have been used in tacticus time. Nobody in the area spoke Greek at that time which is where the word comes from
i'm not disagreeing with what you said, i have not studied any of this


most writing and administrative stuff was done in greek and thus even in areas where it was not natively spoken, anyone who was educated would know the language

i'm not saying you're right or wrong - just that your reasoning behind it is flawed

Tacitus may have written in Latin, but he was both highly educated and an administrator in Greek dominant regions - it's extremely unlikely he didn't know the language

this paper even describes how despite writing in latin, he used a lot of words and grammatical choices which reflect heavy Greek influence
https://camws.org/sites/default/file...citusGreek.pdf
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