Well, considering that in order to have a firm belief in something without complete information is inherently illogical (but necessary since "faith" requites in complete information), I would say that yes, belief is a conscious choice to disregard how illogical it is.

We almost never have complete information for any of our beliefs...

Then you can forget about firm beliefs based on the scientific method, because it never deals in "complete" information. In fact, science explicitly rejects the idea and only draws tentative conclusions pending further observation.

Well I think all human minds are weak and suffer from bodily infirmities. Some more than others.

God knows that and God knows we have incomplete information so he reveals Himself via the Bible.

Most people over value human reason. They over play it the way some people over value/over play big pairs on the poker table.

Total belief in anything without evidence (and even then, in most cases) is for children.

Doubt, intellectual curiosity and need of proof are for adults.

Are you implying that some people "never grow up"?

I'm saying if you believe in something that is not possible to prove and can't be measured in any way, shape, or form then you have a child's mindset.

When a 5 year old believes in Santa Claus, adults think "Well, isn't that cute? He's a child, so they don't know better"

When a 35 year old believes in Santa Claus, other adults think that person is insane.

The way you would view someone who was 35 and believes in Santa Claus is the way I view almost all religious people. If you believe in Religion, it's akin to idiocy. I don't want to be mean about it, but to be honest, I believe most people (who are religious) are just idiots who never grow up in their logic and thought processes.

By the basic logic that we live in a planet of 6-7 billion people and that there are a plethora of different religions and if you believe that YOU (no matter what religion you are) were lucky enough to be in the one and only "true" religion and you will be saved and everyone else won't, well, you're an idiot.

(Note : when I say "you" i don't mean you specifically, I mean in general anyone reading this).

It is cute to watch grown adults think they are immortal even though absolutely everything they have experienced in their life indicates that immortality never happens, and furthermore immortality is a human created concept. I would think that grown adults would pick up on the clue that religion offers something that is too good to be true, but I am proven wrong every time I converse with a fellow human who is scared of death. They are seriously emotionally invested in believing one type of worldview (afterlife) because they are so scared of not existing.

Delusional much?

I only just remembered about this. Some time ago (elsewhere) I got into a brief argument with someone about whether or not the idea that free will is not exerted over belief-states is compatible with free will existing generally. I'm wondering if someone better versed in philosophy than me (I'm looking at you, Original Position) can clarify this for me. I don't understand why it would exist as a separate position if the two are mutually implicit, but I haven't been able to argue convincingly for their separation or find anything that supports it. Does anyone know if the position (free will yes, but over beliefs, no) exists and if so, is it 'current' or is it generally discredited, etc?

I realise this is a HC thread and so it may not be appropriate to just butt in with this, but it is at least tangentially related to the OP.

I am no philosophy expert, but "free will" or the existence thereof seems largely inconsequential to both choice and ethics to me...but this are often the areas where people holler that it matters the most.

My rationale is simple; If people assume free will does not exist, they also have to remove free will from the observer (ie themselves)...they can't observe the deterministic system as if they themselves stand on the outside of it whilst possessing free will.

Thus "judgment" and "choice" merely becomes the result of what you are and what the world has become (deterministically) or a result of what you will and how the world is (free will). This includes your (the observer's) judgment and choices regarding the world.

Again...I think people tend to slip over to fatalism (bound to happen) when they assume determinism...and I'll agree - the terms can be hard to separate...but suffice to say that both determinism and free will are properties of the universe that allow the possibility of something not happening, thus choice matters. I have a hard time writing it any simpler than that.

Well I'm not really concerned about any ethical implications or what-have-you, it's more about the current state of academic thought. Just wondering if the position is seen as tenable or not.

Is belief in a God a choice?

Of course it is a choice, How is it not a choice? Unless you are a kid and your parents are hardcore [put religion here] and your parents don't let you think for yourself. But after you have come of age then yes it is your choice to believe or not.

no. It is choice on how you act on your beliefs... it is a choice on whether or not you challenge your beliefs... but you do not choose what you believe.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot choose to believe in Odin because it clashes with the evidence I've come across that have formed my belief system.

So you admit it's a choice because you choose not to believe in Odin.

I see the smirk so I assume you're agreeing but making a joke?!??!

In case there's any ambiguity... no. I don't choose and cannot choose.

a choice BUT I do firmly believe that some people are more hard-wired to believe than others. Call it the God gene or whatever... I think it is simply that there is an existential angst that comes from non-belief that some people cannot live with, and so they almost are compelled to believe, as a sort of subconscious coping mechanism.

That being said you cannot ignore the psychological programming aspects of most belief... we believe what we are taught as children. That programming can be more difficult for some than others to break free from... if belief was a 100% free choice, would 98% of people in Iran just by coincidence choose to be Muslim? Would most children of Mormons actively choose Mormonism as their religion if not for the programming as a child?

I don't know of anyone who has actually written about this, but I don't see why it wouldn't be separable. It is probably relevant here that it is the will that is asserted to be free. So, for instance, people don't argue for "free perception" that we can see whatever we want to see. I would think that similar considerations would apply to our beliefs. If our beliefs are a matter of choice--if we can will to believe that p, then if we have free will then we can freely will to believe that p. But if our beliefs are not a matter of choice, then it just doesn't matter whether or not our will is free with regards to our beliefs--there wouldn't be anything with regards to our beliefs with which to exercise our wills (except for the second-order considerations brought up by tame deuces).

OK, thanks.

If you don't know any better, is it a choice?

I didn't read this thread. I can only assume that many people have misinterpreted the word chose. You don't chose to believe. You chose to act or show that belief. Plenty of people who say they are athiest arent. A lot of people who say they believe in their religion don't. Just like someone doesn't chose to be gay. You can chose to not engage in homosexual activity but if you still think about penisses all day......

If you haven't read the thread, it is fairly arrogant to call people out on misinterpretations.

Regardless, this is about what people believe and how they come about those beliefs, something you do not really comment on - as much as you just expect readers to take your answer for granted. What people say they believe contrary to how much they daydream about penises is irrelevant.

What they say they believe is in fact irevevant. What they actualy believe is what's in question. Because its not a choice but a state of being. Many people who believe probably wish they didn't and vise versa.