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Is Hell an Illusion? Is Hell an Illusion?

02-06-2012 , 08:11 PM
"If a hundred years ago some man had told you one day people would be talking across continents through a little metal box you would have skeptically laughed your head off."

Exactly. The science which made this technology possible has always existed, and we finally discovered it. I think you'll agree that once it's been discovered, and proven, that it never changes; we only discover more.

I'm not sure what he considers evidence. But people overlook that your brain is a weighing apparatus via perception.

I know my computer is made of billions of tiny molecules because it's been proven, not cause I perceive it that way.

Perception is objective, in the sense that peoples brains are different. When our brains take in what actually happened, it is connected with emotions and past experiences which may give one person a different "reality" than another. On the other hand, there's no debate about gravity, or water: We know they exist because it can be proven, scientifically. If someone believes in God because of perception, not science, it's more of an argument the belief is flawed.

"I didn't set the faith based system up. But people are still following it."

Well if there's still people following it, it must be right!
*This statement was endorsed by the KKK, the Nazi Youth and crystal meth.
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02-06-2012 , 08:26 PM
I read a study that said religious people are more terrified on death beds than atheists, because they have always feared the truth that heaven does not exist and/or they will go to hell.
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02-06-2012 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780
Perception is objective, in the sense that peoples brains are different. When our brains take in what actually happened, it is connected with emotions and past experiences which may give one person a different "reality" than another.
Perception, for this very reason is subjective I'd say. Your perceptions depend upon your self.

The truth is received objectively but the subjective self perceives it and therein will constantly create a subjective view of the objective world. I'd say most of the time its very close, but I think it's undeniable that some people perceive a world of beauty, some of sadness, from the same objective information e.g.focusing on different things, highlighting certain movements, etc.
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02-06-2012 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fablisitude
Perception, for this very reason is subjective I'd say. Your perceptions depend upon your self.

The truth is received objectively but the subjective self perceives it and therein will constantly create a subjective view of the objective world. I'd say most of the time its very close, but I think it's undeniable that some people perceive a world of beauty, some of sadness, from the same objective information e.g.focusing on different things, highlighting certain movements, etc.
Oh sorry, totally meant subjective. Hopefully I can edit...
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02-07-2012 , 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780
Science doesn't change, it's always been here; we just keep discovering more of it.

So C.S. Lewis says, "you shouldn't be Christian if the weight of evidence is against it.." but also, "a reasonable person should be a Christian.."? If reason is defined by making a decision based on logic and fact, then C.S. is contradicting himself.

Aren't there a billion types of Christians? But still only one branch of physics, weird....

Perception can be altered in all sorts of ways. The laws of our Universe cannot.
I don't think C.S. Lewis can be contradicting himself because he's being true to his own personality type (a logically disposed type) which means he's being true to himself.

It's most likely we have 2 general types of theists because some people use a logical intelligence while others use an intuitive intelligence to arrive at a belief in God so it's natural both will reason differently.

God says the standard is faith but that doesn't mean faith doesn't include evidence from God. I'll leave it at that but if you're interested look at Geisler and Zukeran's The Apologetics of Jesus. They claim there's evidence and God never expected anyone to believe without it. I think it's just the typical person isn't analytical enough to spot it.

Like I said I'll leave it at that. It's too challenging to summarize a whole book with its' multiple points. I'd probably leave something out unintentionally.
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02-07-2012 , 11:47 PM
Splen can we get back to your exact Q for a moment. Was you asking;

Is it possible that God either created the illusion of a hell or let that illusion stand to help keep us humans on the right path to him and heaven?

Are you asking if thats a possibility? I just want to make sure i understand the question.
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02-08-2012 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooter
Splen can we get back to your exact Q for a moment. Was you asking;

Is it possible that God either created the illusion of a hell or let that illusion stand to help keep us humans on the right path to him and heaven?

Are you asking if thats a possibility? I just want to make sure i understand the question.
Yes, I've been wondering for a year or two if God let's the literalist version of hell fire stand for some purpose. Or this version could be an unavoidable consequence of people interpreting the scriptures from a position of spiritual blindness. God can always lift the curtain (veil) and reveal the truth at death.

People make all kinds of mistakes from spiritual blindness. That's why God gave the scriptures. You can illuminate your mind by checking and reading the scriptures over and over again. Your heart can go from having candlelight to the light of a full fledged fire. Love is like fire and it can vary in intensity at different times.

God's agape love for each person is greater than anything Romeo and Juliet ever had. God is love.

This is a description of God's person:

1 Corinthians 13:7
She bears up under everything, believes the best in all, there is no limit to her hope, and she will never fall. (NIV)

Other versions describe God this way:

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Endures all things, believes all things, hopes all, bears all.

Weymouth New Testament
She knows how to be silent. She is full of trust, full of hope, full of patient endurance.

A whole page of translations telling you exactly who God is:
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-7.htm
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02-08-2012 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
I don't think C.S. Lewis can be contradicting himself because he's being true to his own personality type (a logically disposed type) which means he's being true to himself.

It's most likely we have 2 general types of theists because some people use a logical intelligence while others use an intuitive intelligence to arrive at a belief in God so it's natural both will reason differently.

God says the standard is faith but that doesn't mean faith doesn't include evidence from God. I'll leave it at that but if you're interested look at Geisler and Zukeran's The Apologetics of Jesus. They claim there's evidence and God never expected anyone to believe without it. I think it's just the typical person isn't analytical enough to spot it.

Like I said I'll leave it at that. It's too challenging to summarize a whole book with its' multiple points. I'd probably leave something out unintentionally.
No, he's not being true to his logical self. He says we should make decisions based on logic, but He doesn't expect people to logically believe in God.

I'd like to see a study on this, but I'm pretty sure an extremely high percentage of Christians are so because they're born into it, while a minute number logically induced that Jesus must have been the son of God.

So there's lots of evidence that God exits, but most arent smart enough to see it? Do you realize how childish this is? And I thought you didn't trust evidence anyways...

No ones asking you to explain the entire Bible, in fact, I've asked that you stop referring to the bible to support your arguments, as you must agree its a biased source. Can you not see how you completely dodge my arguments, and go off on non-sensical tangents?
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