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The Hebrews and Polytheism The Hebrews and Polytheism

06-29-2013 , 07:03 PM
There are a few passages in the Old Testament which imply the Hebrew God was believed to be but one of many. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is one such passage:

Quote:
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But the LORD’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.
This passage (there are multiple translations) implies that Yahweh was not actually the highest being, and that he was allotted a certain peoples on the Earth. We can take the "Most High" deity to be El-Elyon, initially believed to be a separate deity from Yahweh, and other gods, but eventually reworked into a combined, single deity. Other distinct deities may have included Baal and Asherah. It seems Yahweh was seen more as a patron god of war, and during peacetime, other deities were also worshipped. Psalm 136:2 seems to support this interpretation:

Quote:
Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever.
Somewhere along the way, the various deities were merged into a single deity. This might also explain the 1st commandment "you shall have no other gods before me" with the interpretation that this did not refer to false, invented gods, but actual other deities believed to exist both by the people and their allotted god.

I find this type of religious origins interesting and I'm not really sure what I think about the possibility that Judaism was consciously directed into a monotheistic religion from polytheistic origins. It would seem to indicate more secular manipulation of religion rather than true divine inspiration. It would also seem to call into question the rest of the Old Testament as we read it today.
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote
06-30-2013 , 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompleteDegen
There are a few passages in the Old Testament which imply the Hebrew God was believed to be but one of many. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is one such passage:



This passage (there are multiple translations) implies that Yahweh was not actually the highest being, and that he was allotted a certain peoples on the Earth. We can take the "Most High" deity to be El-Elyon, initially believed to be a separate deity from Yahweh, and other gods, but eventually reworked into a combined, single deity. Other distinct deities may have included Baal and Asherah. It seems Yahweh was seen more as a patron god of war, and during peacetime, other deities were also worshipped. Psalm 136:2 seems to support this interpretation:



Somewhere along the way, the various deities were merged into a single deity. This might also explain the 1st commandment "you shall have no other gods before me" with the interpretation that this did not refer to false, invented gods, but actual other deities believed to exist both by the people and their allotted god.

I find this type of religious origins interesting and I'm not really sure what I think about the possibility that Judaism was consciously directed into a monotheistic religion from polytheistic origins. It would seem to indicate more secular manipulation of religion rather than true divine inspiration. It would also seem to call into question the rest of the Old Testament as we read it today.
I took a bible study class in college. The professor identified this as the key passage in bridging the poly tradition to mono

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psalm82
God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:

“How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
Defend the weak and the fatherless;

uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

“I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
This translation has 'gods' in quotes, implying that they aren't really Gods I guess, but I'm unsure of where that comes from. Also, I think that first "God" was initially 'el-elyon', who is standing in the council of "El." So we see there a differentiation between gods. I'm not 100% sure on that, as I couldn't find a non modern translation. Fretloo, can you clear that up?

Last edited by Sommerset; 06-30-2013 at 04:24 AM. Reason: remembered something
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote
06-30-2013 , 04:26 AM
Hi,

a few points:

- There is a difference between Monotheism, Monolatry and Polytheism. Israel was, for the most part of its early history, monolatric. A monotheism proper emerges around the Exil, Jes 43,8-13 being one frequently referred to passage. Thus, that the God of Israel is believed to be "one of many" doesn't say much beyond that Israel realized that other nations had other Gods and didn't outright deny their existence (at least not initially)
- "sons of God" is literally correct, it just means "gods", though. Similarly, "sons of Israel" doesn't literally mean the sons (as opposed to daugthers) of Israel.
- just fyi: "sons of God" is dependent on the reading of the LXX and some qumran fragments. I think it's believed to be the original reading, though many translations will hve the version that MT, Vulgate, Pe****ta etc. have, i.e. "sons of adam"
- Your interpretation is depended on eljon and YHWH not being identical (or at least not being used that way). Otherwise it's simply a two-part statement: one about nations, namely how he distributed land among them, one about himself, in which he affirms Israel/Jakob to be his inheritance.
- In any case - concluding that the text doesn't perceive Yhwh to be the hightest god because there is a "Most High" mentioned is premature. When say: "Arnold Schwarzenegger was Governour of Cal. However, the Terminators inevitability falterd at the doors of the state congress", I'm not making a statement about two persons. This doesn't mean your reading is wrong - just that the text is not much in the way of evidence one way or the other.
- In addition, there are many texts in which Eljon is simply used as a term for YHWH.
- Your interpretation of Ps 136 doesn't work. For one, you miss that V2 is parallel to V1 - it's just a reformulation of the same "Give Thanks to the Lord". In as far as you are basing it on the expression "God of Gods" - there's also a book called the Song of Songs in the OT. We interpret that to mean the highest/best/most wonderful song, not "one of many songs".
- "Were merged"/"consciously directed" - well, for one how do you propose it works if a prophet gets a revelation that differes from what the average peasant believes. Of course that will be a "conscious directing" of sorts. For two, Israel distanced itself quite vocally from the neighboring deities and nations. So to the extend that YHWH did incorporate traits form neighboring gods, it's almost certianly more a case of the average peasant having no clue about theology and just mixing and matching ad libitum.

Last edited by fretelöo; 06-30-2013 at 04:26 AM. Reason: Peshi tta being caught by the thought police.
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote
06-30-2013 , 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommerset
This translation has 'gods' in quotes, implying that they aren't really Gods I guess, but I'm unsure of where that comes from.
It an interpretation. They don't have the attributes of deities (wander in the darkness - something the dead do; know/understand nothing etc.), so the polemical nature of the text is intensified by putting '' around gods. The hebrew simply has "elohim", of course.

Quote:
Also, I think that first "God" was initially 'el-elyon', who is standing in the council of "El." So we see there a differentiation between gods. I'm not 100% sure on that, as I couldn't find a non modern translation. Fretloo, can you clear that up?
El is the uber-god of pretty much all semite religions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity). The normal OT term for "God" - elohim - is technically a plural of "El". And as you can see from the wiki-page on El, we really don'T know much either way other than some educated guesses. We have some texts; in those it's not always clear which divnine attributes are genuine, which are trans-applications from other deities, which divine titles were thought (or at least cuold be thought of) as synonymous, and which where not. Apart from that we have a few temples, some inscriptions and figurines. You can't get much further than educated guessing, based on that.

There is this, though: http://historicity-was-already-taken...nd-his-asherah

and from Tel Arad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Arad we know that at least around 600 bce or so, there were dedicated JHWH temples, though what that means is also not really clear. Bottom line: we don't really know.
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote
06-30-2013 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretelöo
Hi,

a few points:

- There is a difference between Monotheism, Monolatry and Polytheism. Israel was, for the most part of its early history, monolatric. A monotheism proper emerges around the Exil, Jes 43,8-13 being one frequently referred to passage. Thus, that the God of Israel is believed to be "one of many" doesn't say much beyond that Israel realized that other nations had other Gods and didn't outright deny their existence (at least not initially)
I agree with most of your points, but I believe that before the exile, much of Israel was actually polytheistic. For lack of time, I'll cite Wikipedia for now, but there appears to be evidence that they did indeed worship deities in addition to Yahweh including Asherah. There also seems to have been contention between followers of Ba'al and followers of Yahweh as to who supplied rain, ultimately demonstrated to be Yahweh, but indicating multiple deity worship at one point.

I also find Psalm 82:1 to be interesting:
Quote:
A psalm of Asaph. God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.
There are multiple translations for this passage, but this one seems to capture the gist of the Hebrew. One interpretation, of course, is again that Yahweh is but one of many gods, and again that he is below El.
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote
07-01-2013 , 03:53 AM
Sure, that's why I referred to "peasant doing their mixing and matching". And the vocal opposition in 1/2 Kings against the worship of foreign gods itself leads one to think that this was a present and persistent "problem". Otherwise, why harp on it so much? But I agree - my initial wording was a bit too sweeping.

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However, since the Wiki-page refers to Finkelstein/Silberman 2002 - (This is going to be more of a digression than anything else) it's interesting to note that they rely on two sources for their inferences: One is figurines and other archaeological evidence suggestive of a more non-supervised form of local/private cult (libation vessels, incense altars etc.).

Quote:
"Indeed, for Judah, with its relatively underdeveloped state bureaucracy and national institutions, religious rituals were carried out in two distinct arenas—sometimes working in concert, sometimes in open conflict. The first was the Temple in Jerusalem, about which there is abundant biblical description from various periods but (since its site was obliterated in later building operations) virtually no archaeological evidence. The second focus of religious practice was among the clans scattered throughout the countryside. There, complex networks of kinship relations dominated all phases of life, including religion. Rituals for the fertility of the land and the blessings of the ancestors gave people hope for the well-being of their families and sanctified their possession of their village fields and grazing lands."

Since the high places were presumably open areas or natural hilltops, no definite archaeological traces of them have as yet been identified. So the clearest archaeological evidence of the popularity of this type of worship throughout the kingdom is the discovery of hundreds of figurines of naked fertility goddesses at every late monarchic site in Judah. More suggestive are the inscriptions found in the early eighth century site of Kuntillet Ajrud in northeastern Sinai—a site that shows cultural links with the northern kingdom. They apparently refer to the goddess Asherah as being the consort of YHWH.
The other form of evidence is biblical literature itself. This presents the danger of circularity: interpreting the biblical account in light of the material culture, and view the relevance of the material culture in light of the biblical account. For example, a bit further on they write:

Quote:
There is ample biblical and archaeological information that the syncretistic cult of YHWH flourished in Jerusalem even in late monarchic times. The con¬demnations of various Judahite prophets make it abundantly clear that YHWH was worshiped in Jerusalem together with other deities, such as Baal, Asherah, the hosts of heaven, and even the national deities of the neighboring lands. From the biblical critique of Solomon (probably re¬flecting late monarchic realities), we learn of worship in Judah of Milcom of Ammon, Chemosh of Moab, and Ashtoreth of Sidon (i Kings 11:5; 2 Kings 23:13). Jeremiah tells us that the number of deities worshiped in Judah equaled the number of its cities and that the number of altars to Baal in Jerusalem equaled the number of bazaar stalls in the capital (Jeremiah 11:13). Moreover, cult objects dedicated to Baal, Asherah, and the host of heaven were installed in the Temple of YHWH in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 8 de¬scribes in detail all the abominations practiced in the Temple in Jerusalem, including the worship of the Mesopotamian god Tammuz.
For one, the biblical account is basically taken at face value. That the prophets had an obvious agenda and therefore good reasons to exaggerate, for example, is an issue that doesn't get addressed. The effects of that can be seen in light of a passage just two paragraphs prior:

Quote:
The first was the Temple in Jerusalem, about which there is abundant biblical description from various periods but (since its site was obliterated in later building operations) virtually no archaeological evidence.
So there is virtually no archaeological evidence of the Temple and what happened in it, yet "cult objects dedicated to Baal, Asherah, and the host of heaven were installed in the Temple of YHWH in Jerusalem" - because Ez 8 says so. And we believe Ez 8 because ... we find figurines, high places of worship, libation vessels etc.

Finkelstein/Silberman 2002 have been criticized for exactly that rather one-dimensional use of biblical evidence. The reason for their approach is that both Finkelstein and Silberman are archaeologists - and very good ones. Questions of the hermeneutics of interpretation etc., however, more or less pass them by.

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Again, this is not to say that I disagree with you. And I actually think "The Bible Unearthed" is a book that pretty much any christian should read (despite thinking that it's a book that shouldn't be used referencing wiki-pages). For all its faults, it's a lot more right than wrong.

Anyway - not sure where I'm going with this. I guess my point is that if you queried all american christians in depth about their faith, you'd probably discover that a significant portion of them are tritheists, some of them are strict monotheists, some of them are just sort of spiritual etc. etc. I'd say that doesn't mean that American Christianity is not trinitaric - it just means that people don't understand/don't really think about theology. So if we find figurines of Baal in basically every iron-age village of the levant, I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that Israel/Judah as a state, with a state cult, was polytheist.
The Hebrews and Polytheism Quote

      
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