Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2018, 01:26 AM   #1
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,598
Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Hi Everyone:

I'm going to get into something that I don't know enough about to discuss well, but still think it can make for an interesting discussion.

As I think everyone here knows, Christians believe that when death comes, the soul goes to either Heaven or Hell.

Jews on the other hand, believe in the resurrection of the dead. This means, for instance, that if I was to live long enough, I would have the opportunity to meet my great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

Now it also seems to me that if one of these is true, the other can't be accurate. From my perspective, it doesn't make sense to go to Heaven (or Hell) and then be a part of the dead that was resurrected. It also doesn't make sense to even be concerned, again from my perspective, with Heaven or Hell if you believe in the resurrection of the dead.

All comment welcome.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 11:59 AM   #2
carlo
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,691
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/art...e-after-death/


All interesting and illuminating.

Last edited by carlo; 05-01-2018 at 12:08 PM.
carlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 11:02 PM   #3
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

I'm going to get into something that I don't know enough about to discuss well, but still think it can make for an interesting discussion.

As I think everyone here knows, Christians believe that when death comes, the soul goes to either Heaven or Hell.

Jews on the other hand, believe in the resurrection of the dead. This means, for instance, that if I was to live long enough, I would have the opportunity to meet my great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

Now it also seems to me that if one of these is true, the other can't be accurate. From my perspective, it doesn't make sense to go to Heaven (or Hell) and then be a part of the dead that was resurrected. It also doesn't make sense to even be concerned, again from my perspective, with Heaven or Hell if you believe in the resurrection of the dead.

All comment welcome.

Best wishes,
Mason
Where did you get the idea Christians don't believe in a resurrection? The NT mentions many times the future resurrection of the dead. Believers in Christ are resurrected to life (what you are calling heaven) and nonbelievers are resurrected to what the Bible calls 'the second death.' Heaven is just a word describing the ecstacy of eternity in Gods promised land. Notice the parallels with Judaism here. The Promised Land of the OT is physical, and also metaphorical of the future spiritual Promised Land, His eternal presence. Jesus is, of course, considered the firstfruits of the resurrection.

Paul quotes the OT: "Abrahams faith in Gods promise was counted to him as righteousness," and allowed his offspring to inherit the promised land. In the same way, faith in Christs death and resurrection counts to believers as righteousness, that they may enter the spiritual one.
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 04:53 AM   #4
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,598
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Where did you get the idea Christians don't believe in a resurrection? The NT mentions many times the future resurrection of the dead. Believers in Christ are resurrected to life (what you are calling heaven) and nonbelievers are resurrected to what the Bible calls 'the second death.' Heaven is just a word describing the ecstacy of eternity in Gods promised land. Notice the parallels with Judaism here. The Promised Land of the OT is physical, and also metaphorical of the future spiritual Promised Land, His eternal presence. Jesus is, of course, considered the firstfruits of the resurrection.

Paul quotes the OT: "Abrahams faith in Gods promise was counted to him as righteousness," and allowed his offspring to inherit the promised land. In the same way, faith in Christs death and resurrection counts to believers as righteousness, that they may enter the spiritual one.
No. Your resurrection has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Going to heaven and getting to meet your great-great-great-great-grandfather when you see him walking down the street are not the same thing.

Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2018, 01:51 PM   #5
walkby
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 757
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

I'm going to get into something that I don't know enough about to discuss well, but still think it can make for an interesting discussion.

As I think everyone here knows, Christians believe that when death comes, the soul goes to either Heaven or Hell.

Jews on the other hand, believe in the resurrection of the dead. This means, for instance, that if I was to live long enough, I would have the opportunity to meet my great-great-great-great-great grandfather.

Now it also seems to me that if one of these is true, the other can't be accurate. From my perspective, it doesn't make sense to go to Heaven (or Hell) and then be a part of the dead that was resurrected. It also doesn't make sense to even be concerned, again from my perspective, with Heaven or Hell if you believe in the resurrection of the dead.

All comment welcome.

Best wishes,
Mason
Quote:
First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).
https://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html
walkby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2018, 06:01 AM   #6
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
No. Your resurrection has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Going to heaven and getting to meet your great-great-great-great-grandfather when you see him walking down the street are not the same thing.

Mason
Christianity has a physical resurrection, just like what you're describing. Jesus Christ was the first one to resurrect, and a future one will resurrect all the dead. What difference does it make where you meet your resurrected grandfather?
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2018, 04:08 PM   #7
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus99 View Post
I actually just listened to a recent Sam Harris podcast where he interviewed a scholar of Christianity named Bart Ehrman and this subject came up. I am paraphrasing, but my understanding of Ehrman's explanation is that Christian religious thought alluding to a physical resurrection and a spiritual heaven contradict each other without having to deal with Judaism at all.

https://samharris.org/podcast/
Bart Ehrman is a heck of a scholar but he doesn't understand Christian doctrine, despite claiming to have been a Christian for years. Christian doctrine quite clearly states that Jesus physically rose from the dead and then ascended into heaven. So his body was in a resurrected physical/spiritual form. True Christians will follow suit at the end of the age. There is also reference to a mass ascension of resurrected believers. There is no contradiction here.
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2018, 03:06 AM   #8
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,598
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Christianity has a physical resurrection, just like what you're describing. Jesus Christ was the first one to resurrect, and a future one will resurrect all the dead. What difference does it make where you meet your resurrected grandfather?
Hi DoOrDoNot:

This isn’t what I’m talking about. The way I understand it, Jews believe that everyone will be resurrected, but Christians believe that you go to Heaven or Hell, and if you go to one of those places, it doesn’t seem to me that it makes sense to come out of your grave and live again.

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 12:45 AM   #9
Living Abortion
enthusiast
 
Living Abortion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 87
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus99 View Post
I actually just listened to a recent Sam Harris podcast where he interviewed a scholar of Christianity named Bart Ehrman and this subject came up. I am paraphrasing, but my understanding of Ehrman's explanation is that Christian religious thought alluding to a physical resurrection and a spiritual heaven contradict each other without having to deal with Judaism at all.

https://samharris.org/podcast/

Just finished listening to that about 5 minutes ago. I've been a Christian for about 10 years now and was fairly zealous about it and believed that if God is who he says he is then I can stress test the bible and things regarding to the Christian faith and it should hold up... I've searched high and lo and read and studied the bible to a level that many do not. I've prayed fervently for years on end and tackled the hardest questions I could possibly come up with concerning the Christian faith.

After ten years or so years, I am teetering on becoming an atheist. I cannot live with this cognitive dissonance any longer. I cannot "faith it over" and suppress logic and reasoning for what seems like ignorant faith. No answers from church authority seem to be sufficient either and seem to always be met with resistance. "How dare you question God and our theology, you're causing division and that's demonic. You have no faith. You're not perfect, get the log out of your own eye." I want God to be real, I have no qualms with Jesus, I just don't see it anymore... I'm open to it still, but not at the expense of being told to suppress my "god given" intellect.

Dang....


Appreciate the thread Mason, I'll be picking up your SNG book fairly soon.
See you on the other end.
Living Abortion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 03:41 AM   #10
walkby
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 757
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Abortion View Post
Just finished listening to that about 5 minutes ago. I've been a Christian for about 10 years now and was fairly zealous about it and believed that if God is who he says he is then I can stress test the bible and things regarding to the Christian faith and it should hold up... I've searched high and lo and read and studied the bible to a level that many do not. I've prayed fervently for years on end and tackled the hardest questions I could possibly come up with concerning the Christian faith.

After ten years or so years, I am teetering on becoming an atheist. I cannot live with this cognitive dissonance any longer. I cannot "faith it over" and suppress logic and reasoning for what seems like ignorant faith. No answers from church authority seem to be sufficient either and seem to always be met with resistance. "How dare you question God and our theology, you're causing division and that's demonic. You have no faith. You're not perfect, get the log out of your own eye." I want God to be real, I have no qualms with Jesus, I just don't see it anymore... I'm open to it still, but not at the expense of being told to suppress my "god given" intellect.

Dang....


Appreciate the thread Mason, I'll be picking up your SNG book fairly soon.
See you on the other end.
What are you having an issue with? I might be able to help you out or possibly point you in the right direction.
walkby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 10:06 AM   #11
Pokerlogist
veteran
 
Pokerlogist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: "turn on ,tune in, drop out"
Posts: 2,617
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

My understanding of the Catholic/Christion version of the judgement process is that it is two-step. Since, upon death, the soul is thought to go immediately to heaven, hell or purgatory without physical bodies and without ceremony, the reckoning is considered incomplete. So, at the end of time, the Last Judgement occurs with a grand ceremony for all persons that have ever lived. with the soul and the body re-united, and with Christ present Everybody's status ends up the same as before except that those who were in purgatory, go to heaven. As far as the process being cumbersome, I suppose it is something like getting a college degree on the day you finish your coursework, but it not being “official” until the graduation ceremony.

I suppose it is possible that people could visit with each other during the Last Judgement. That would be quite an experience.

Last edited by Pokerlogist; 05-14-2018 at 10:11 AM. Reason: re-organized
Pokerlogist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 03:07 PM   #12
Living Abortion
enthusiast
 
Living Abortion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 87
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkby View Post
What are you having an issue with? I might be able to help you out or possibly point you in the right direction.
I appreciate your interest.

At this point I'd have to sit down and write out a concise thesis paper concerning the above issues and break them down accordingly. I'll get an outline going and try and get a rough draft written by the end of the week. I'll let you know when I post it.
Living Abortion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 07:17 PM   #13
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi DoOrDoNot:

This isn’t what I’m talking about. The way I understand it, Jews believe that everyone will be resurrected, but Christians believe that you go to Heaven or Hell, and if you go to one of those places, it doesn’t seem to me that it makes sense to come out of your grave and live again.

Best wishes,
Mason
I think what you're describing as Heaven and Hell is a simplistic and premature understanding of Christianity. I don't mean any offense by this, I just want to clarify. Unfortunately a lot of Christians have this understanding as well.

There is no real mention of 'hell' in the NT. There are some allusions to a place of future judgment.

I think, and please clarify if I am wrong here, that Jews believe that sinful people stay dead, whereas forgiven people will rise from the dead? What happens to sinners in the end?
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 04:39 AM   #14
Mason Malmuth
Top Dog
 
Mason Malmuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: @MasonMalmuth
Posts: 10,598
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
I think, and please clarify if I am wrong here, that Jews believe that sinful people stay dead, whereas forgiven people will rise from the dead? What happens to sinners in the end?
Hi DoOrDoNot:

I think you're wrong. My understanding is that when people are brought out of their graves to live again, some of them will come back to great shame. And the ones with the greatest shame will be the false profits. I think the short book of Hosea has stuff on this and one of the false profits who has come back to great shame actually speaks.

However, this is a different issue from the question I asked (and I'm certainly not an expert on this stuff.)

Best wishes,
Mason
Mason Malmuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 09:48 AM   #15
robert_utk
veteran
 
robert_utk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ValueTown
Posts: 3,133
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

I thought purgatory is what the Catholic Church uses to explain the physical resurrection plus heaven and hell situation.

I’m not Catholic, but most of the specific answers to these type of specific scenarios are usually solid, after all they have had quite some time to come up with these answers...
robert_utk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 06:34 PM   #16
Toe Jam and Earl
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 51
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I thought purgatory is what the Catholic Church uses to explain the physical resurrection plus heaven and hell situation.

I’m not Catholic, but most of the specific answers to these type of specific scenarios are usually solid, after all they have had quite some time to come up with these answers...
Purgatory is a spiritual state of purification that a soul enters after death if it is not ready to enter Heaven. All souls in Purgatory will ultimately end up in Heaven. It is largely born out of the logical conclusion drawn from the idea that Heaven will be a perfect utopia with no sin, suffering, etc. Any soul that dies on earth must be perfect before entering Heaven. If they aren't perfect upon death, they must be purified. It has no real relation to the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead except that Purgatory is largely believed to end at the time of the resurrection.

Pokerlogist had a pretty good explanation of the Catholic doctrine of the afterlife in his post. I would add that after the last judgement, Catholics believe that the earth will be remade and will be the eternal home of the righteous; where you could most definitely meet your ancestors.
Toe Jam and Earl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2018, 12:43 AM   #17
walkby
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 757
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Here's gotquestions.org's answer to the question, "What does the Bible say about Purgatory?"

Quote:
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html

Last edited by walkby; 05-18-2018 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Edited to include the whole answer from gotquestions.org
walkby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #18
robert_utk
veteran
 
robert_utk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ValueTown
Posts: 3,133
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

I have misunderstood the concept of purgatory, based on the feedback in the thread.

Is it required that Christianity agree with reformed Judaism anyway? One declares itself to be superior revelation to the other...
robert_utk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 12:22 PM   #19
Loading....
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 398
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Mason it sounds like you're talking about reincarnation.

It seems to me there are very few passages in your Scriptures that talk about the resurrection, namely Daniel 12 and Isaiah 26:19- "Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise." The Lord Jesus brought this to full meaning and clarified when it will take place; "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:40

Also note that the resurrection has not yet occurred and won't until the last trumpet; "in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." 1 Corinthians 15:52

Certain people have deviated from the faith, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of others. (2 Timothy 2:18) but when Jesus returns, then it will happen. "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."
Loading.... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 03:31 PM   #20
antialias
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 221
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

I thought christians were supposed to be with their loved ones after death..somehow I can't get that to grok.
If X loves Y but Y hates X...what happens after death? Does X get to be with Y? Is Y forced to spend eternity with X? While such a broken symmetry may sound extreme then just extend it to
X loves Y but hates Z
Y loves Z but hates X
Z loves X but hates Y (or any other combination of roundabout love/hate incompatibilities. with large enough numbers of people such a situation is bound to occur)
antialias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 05:26 PM   #21
robert_utk
veteran
 
robert_utk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ValueTown
Posts: 3,133
Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by antialias View Post
I thought christians were supposed to be with their loved ones after death..somehow I can't get that to grok.
If X loves Y but Y hates X...what happens after death? Does X get to be with Y? Is Y forced to spend eternity with X? While such a broken symmetry may sound extreme then just extend it to
X loves Y but hates Z
Y loves Z but hates X
Z loves X but hates Y (or any other combination of roundabout love/hate incompatibilities. with large enough numbers of people such a situation is bound to occur)


I think there will be or are “loved ones”, but that the earthly relationships of spouses or parents or siblings are retired to the past life on earth. For instance, the Pharisees posed this exact question to Jeshua (Jesus) about persons who remarry on earth after their spouse dies.
robert_utk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 05:47 PM   #22
antialias
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 221
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
the Pharisees posed this exact question to Jeshua (Jesus) about persons who remarry on earth after their spouse dies.
Interesting, I didn't know that.

In the end the entire "afterlife" or "rebirth" thing is weird. It stems from people being afraid of being dead...but if you accept that the universe is 14+ billion years old (heck, even if you're a total fundamentalist and believe the Earth is just 4k years old)...did anyone care that he/she wasn't around for billions (thousands) of years until birth? No? Then why be concerned whether we're around in some form after death?
antialias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 11:52 PM   #23
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by antialias View Post
Interesting, I didn't know that.

In the end the entire "afterlife" or "rebirth" thing is weird. It stems from people being afraid of being dead...but if you accept that the universe is 14+ billion years old (heck, even if you're a total fundamentalist and believe the Earth is just 4k years old)...did anyone care that he/she wasn't around for billions (thousands) of years until birth? No? Then why be concerned whether we're around in some form after death?
Because now you're aware to be concerned about it?
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 07:06 AM   #24
VeeDDzz`
Pooh-Bah
 
VeeDDzz`'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,170
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Because now you're aware to be concerned about it?
Why would I be concerned about something I can't experience?

What is this concern you're both referring to?
VeeDDzz` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2018, 09:50 AM   #25
DoOrDoNot
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,763
Re: Heaven and the Resurrection of the Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDDzz` View Post
Why would I be concerned about something I can't experience?

What is this concern you're both referring to?
Why don't you think you'll experience death? Are you immortal? You will experience it, even if your presumptions about the experience are correct and it's an unconscious one.
DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online