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Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth.

03-08-2009 , 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEL_
BTW, much of what is written in the scripts is symbolic, there is good reason for this.
If by "scripts" you mean scriptures, I can think of many good reasons for it...
  • Humans wrote this stuff
  • Modern discoveries have removed much of the literal interpretation
  • Readers refuse to believe things they don't want to and therefore believe it to be symbolic
  • It's too vague to be literal
Contrarily, can you think of ONE good reason why an omniscient, onmibenevolent creator of the universe would use symbolism (instead of clear, concise, direct language) in order to reveal himself to us and help us choose our eternal fate?
Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Quote
03-08-2009 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
If by "scripts" you mean scriptures, I can think of many good reasons for it...
  • Humans wrote this stuff
  • Modern discoveries have removed much of the literal interpretation
  • Readers refuse to believe things they don't want to and therefore believe it to be symbolic
  • It's too vague to be literal
Contrarily, can you think of ONE good reason why an omniscient, onmibenevolent creator of the universe would use symbolism (instead of clear, concise, direct language) in order to reveal himself to us and help us choose our eternal fate?
Yes, scrptures.

Direct language cannot help once your mind is already conditioned. So you have to go past that and feel what is being said in order to really understand.
Plus the reference is rather to the teachers than a creator.
Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Quote
03-08-2009 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEL_
The teachers are not t blame for the atrocities occured due to the corruption of their teachings.
BTW, much of what is written in the scripts is symbolic, there is good reason for this.
That whole symbolic bible thing is funny to me. When it suites biblical believers it's symbolic, like the all the violence and brutality. When it doesn't suit them it's literal, like forbidding homosexuality or the submissive nature of woman.

If this verse is symbolic and not literal I'm open to listening to your interpretations.

"Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."



For the sake of argument lets say Jesus words are symbolic and that he existed (i don't even know he existed that for sure).

The teacher I'm talking about is a supposed Omnipotent God. Who would know before he even created the universe that his words would be misinterpreted, mostly do to the symbolic nature of those words. Of course he's responsible for that misinterpretation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius Galenus
Yeah well why would he have spoken in terms of what is acceptable today? I don't believe in his divinity, so I have no problem reconciling him as a good person/moral teacher with the fact that some of what he said is dated or wrong.
But I'm talking about today and was saying if Jesus' morals of the past were enforced today it would be hell on earth. For me at least I tend to not like sleeping couch during my girlfriends menstrual cycle (no touching that time of the month) or having swords thrust into me.

Last edited by batair; 03-08-2009 at 04:10 PM.
Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Quote
03-09-2009 , 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
That whole symbolic bible thing is funny to me. When it suites biblical believers it's symbolic, like the all the violence and brutality. When it doesn't suit them it's literal, like forbidding homosexuality or the submissive nature of woman.

If this verse is symbolic and not literal I'm open to listening to your interpretations.

"Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."



For the sake of argument lets say Jesus words are symbolic and that he existed (i don't even know he existed that for sure).

The teacher I'm talking about is a supposed Omnipotent God. Who would know before he even created the universe that his words would be misinterpreted, mostly do to the symbolic nature of those words. Of course he's responsible for that misinterpretation.
I think the reason for this is because the God mentioned in the Bible does not exist.




Quote:
But I'm talking about today and was saying if Jesus' morals of the past were enforced today it would be hell on earth. For me at least I tend to not like sleeping couch during my girlfriends menstrual cycle (no touching that time of the month) or having swords thrust into me.
I meant mostly his approach to life; it seems to me he had a remarkably peaceful and decent philosophy given life at the time. But I will say that not having a sword/weapon of some sort in those days would have been stupid, since the only authority was Roman Soldiers who despised most natives of that area, and once you get married Jesus' thoughts on the menstrual cycle may start to seem more practical :P
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03-09-2009 , 04:01 AM
Even if Jesus' moral teachings weren't 100% consistent with total peace and unity, they were still a TREMENDOUS improvement over the god of the OT. It's not hard to imagine how people who lived during and after the life of Jesus would have thought of him as the greatest thing since sliced bread. (maybe even to the point that they would deify him)
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03-09-2009 , 05:24 AM
You ever heard the phrase to chop ones head off?

It means to get rid of your head(ego) or simply empty the mind of trash or false beliefs
if you like.

The sword is an example of dividing by cutting, making a mark in the sand, you that side or this side. This was of course not peace. Forcing the people to make a decision one way or the other. You also have to bear in mind the sign of the times. The sword in those times was the weapon used to bring about CHANGE.
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03-09-2009 , 05:35 AM
Jesus spoke many times in parables. Well of course he did. Once you see the meaning you realise all the other garbage out there, as just that, rubbish.

Now, I am not just referring to Jesus teachings which by the way his real name was Yahshua, but to practically, all the other teachers of different religions.

Religions are formed to keep people in check. Of course this can in turn get corrupted leading to interpretations that are not the real teachings.
Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Quote
03-09-2009 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudius Galenus
I meant mostly his approach to life; it seems to me he had a remarkably peaceful and decent philosophy given life at the time. But I will say that not having a sword/weapon of some sort in those days would have been stupid, since the only authority was Roman Soldiers who despised most natives of that area, and once you get married Jesus' thoughts on the menstrual cycle may start to seem more practical :P
Good point on cycle thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
Even if Jesus' moral teachings weren't 100% consistent with total peace and unity, they were still a TREMENDOUS improvement over the god of the OT. It's not hard to imagine how people who lived during and after the life of Jesus would have thought of him as the greatest thing since sliced bread. (maybe even to the point that they would deify him)
I agree his teaching were better then the OT, some even incredibly insightful and advanced for his day. But that doesn't change that I wouldn't want to live under all of his rules.

Plus he even contradicts himself when it comes to the old laws by saying.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEL_
Jesus spoke many times in parables. Well of course he did. Once you see the meaning you realise all the other garbage out there, as just that, rubbish.

Now, I am not just referring to Jesus teachings which by the way his real name was Yahshua, but to practically, all the other teachers of different religions.

Religions are formed to keep people in check. Of course this can in turn get corrupted leading to interpretations that are not the real teachings.
Its an easy and dangerous game when anything that doesn't fit cretin peoples or groups values can just be reworked to fit just about anything they want.
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03-10-2009 , 05:23 AM
Yes I agree, that's why there is so much confusion.
People belief robotically.
People believe in or they believe not.

Fear comes to mind.
Heaven and Hell, Here on this Earth. Quote
03-10-2009 , 05:44 AM
The Christian misunderstanding of eternity, eternal is not a long time, it means here and now.
Bliss or torment, heaven or hell.

You have the spirit, you have grace(now)because it is always now.
You don't have the spirit, you have spiritual death(now) but it is always now.

Another example of symbolic execution of words which leads to misinterpretation by people translating the meanings to suit their cause.
And people believing whatever they hear becuase it comes from a so called authority.

Jesus knew what he was talking about, the guy explaining without having grace himself has no idea. So, goes along the interpretation of the so called religion.

Last edited by JOEL_; 03-10-2009 at 05:52 AM.
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