heaven is awful - Religion, God, and Theology - Religion and Spirituality Forum

For true meaninglessness, we would need heaven.

In the state of permanent, perfect bliss that is the very definition of heaven, ‘making a difference’ is ruled out. If the difference made an improvement, the previous state could not have been perfect. If it made things worse, the result would not be perfect. In heaven, neither is possible. Even being reunited with loved ones could not add one jot to their bliss or yours, for heaven would be, by definition, a state that could not be improved on.

Just consider for a moment the hellish pointlessness of heaven. At least in our real existence our actions have an effect, for better or worse, and it is therefore worth trying to get them right. In an eternal life where we can have no effect whatsoever, we might as well be dead.

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01-22-2012 , 09:21 PM

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by lawdude

"In the state of permanent, perfect bliss that is the very definition of heaven"

I don't know that that is the very definition of heaven.

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01-22-2012 , 09:52 PM

AlligatorBloodFTW

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I don't think there is a definition of heaven. I also don't think that something can be so perfect that it sucks.

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01-22-2012 , 10:57 PM

batair

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To much joy is scary. Plus it makes really ****ty music and movies.

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01-22-2012 , 11:13 PM

AlligatorBloodFTW

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OP are you an emo?

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01-23-2012 , 12:19 AM

Dominic

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I would agree with this...heaven is impossible for a human to comprehend. It and he'll are interchangeable.

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01-23-2012 , 03:38 AM

Habiby

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Psychologists have found that whatever environment a person is in, their level of happiness and contentment always level off to a base line. Therefore heaven would have to get better and better from moment to moment forever. Fallacy ad infinitum. This idea of heaven is not the Christian heaven. The Christian heaven will be on Earth after it is purged of fire, and the saved will live there forever as they did before, but with the bliss of being in God's presence. God must have longevity technology down pact. This will all occur after God returns to Earth in his space ship.

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01-23-2012 , 05:48 AM

Dying Actors

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blissful meaninglessness sounds kinda awesome iyam

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01-23-2012 , 08:05 AM

T!ghterThanU

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Absolutely rediculous. Next op will tell us how horrible Hugh Hefners life is because he didn't have enough toothless 300 pound smelly bitches. Without them who would be happy ect ect.

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01-24-2012 , 06:27 AM

#10

Habiby

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Originally Posted by T!ghterThanU

Absolutely rediculous. Next op will tell us how horrible Hugh Hefners life is because he didn't have enough toothless 300 pound smelly bitches. Without them who would be happy ect ect.

The lust you feel about 300 pound toothless woman has nothing to do with this thread. Joking aside, your analogy is horrible in general, and especially for this thread.

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01-25-2012 , 07:36 PM

#11

lawdude

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Originally Posted by ganstaman

I don't know that that is the very definition of heaven.

I'm not really sure the problem goes away if you supply a different definition.

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01-25-2012 , 08:59 PM

#12

Jibninjas

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lol, this is pretty absurd.

The quote in the OP is stating both that

1. Heaven is a unimprovable state of happiness.

While saying that

2. In order to be happy one needs a constant state of improvement.

If 1) is true then 2) must be false. If 2) is true then 1) must be false. But they cannot both be true as implied by the OP. Unless of course Heaven is actually a continuous state of improvement. Every moment being improved upon over the last. If this is true, then that would actually be the definition of heaven. and if that were the case, the OP would have no objections left.

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01-26-2012 , 03:01 AM

#13

Janabis

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

But that would violate the first premise.

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01-26-2012 , 11:49 AM

#14

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by Janabis

But that would violate the first premise.

Not necessarily. If the state that cannot be improved upon is actually a state of continuous improvement, then it would fit that definition.

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01-26-2012 , 04:16 PM

#15

Janabis

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

Not necessarily. If the state that cannot be improved upon is actually a state of continuous improvement, then it would fit that definition.

That's a contradiction.

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01-26-2012 , 05:26 PM

#16

lawdude

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Originally Posted by Jibninjas

As I said, redefining heaven doesn't really vitiate the objection.

A "continual state of improvement" sounds like Tantalus reaching closer and closer to the apple and never getting it. And at any rate, it seems conceptually impossible unless the improvements are going to get smaller and smaller over time (and thus continued existence will get less and less interesting).

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01-26-2012 , 06:47 PM

#17

ganstaman

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Originally Posted by lawdude

I'm not really sure the problem goes away if you supply a different definition.

?? Didn't the OP say that the problem was that the definition of heaven didn't make sense? What did I misread?

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01-26-2012 , 10:18 PM

#18

bluesbassman

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The concept of "heaven," like many others from Christian mythology, is hopelessly incoherent. To attempt to make sense of it or to "seriously" analyze it is futile.

The idea of heaven as shown in the following clip is as good as any:

Christmas in heaven

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01-26-2012 , 10:22 PM

#19

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by Janabis

That's a contradiction.

No it is not.

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01-26-2012 , 10:22 PM

#20

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by bluesbassman

How is it incoherent?

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01-26-2012 , 10:25 PM

#21

MyrnaFTW

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track 17 of "ready to die"

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01-26-2012 , 10:29 PM

#22

Jibninjas

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Originally Posted by lawdude

None of this follows logically.

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01-27-2012 , 03:23 AM

#23

Aaron W.

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Originally Posted by lawdude

And at any rate, it seems conceptually impossible unless the improvements are going to get smaller and smaller over time (and thus continued existence will get less and less interesting).

Let's say that it's possible to rate the "quality" of heaven using numbers, with larger numbers denoting higher "quality." Why can't the "quality" be described by f(t) = 2^t, where t is the number of "days" in heaven?

There seems to be no necessary reason for "the improvements to get smaller and smaller over time" and so consequently there's no necessary reason for "continued existence to get less and less interesting."

This seems to successfully show that it's "conceptually possible."

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01-27-2012 , 03:52 AM

#24

David Sklansky

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You are all plagiarizing Rod Serling.

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01-27-2012 , 04:04 AM

#25

Hack4444

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I disagree David, I think what everyone here is really trying to express is that we are not only talking about a dimension of vision and hearing but, additionally, I might add, and furthermore, uh ... a mental sort of dimension?

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