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German court bans circumcision of young boys German court bans circumcision of young boys

07-09-2012 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
The burden of proof on situations when the government is creating a ban on X is to show that X is harmful. This has always been the case. As a first principle in society, we accept the rights of individuals to be idiots and to do idiotic things and think that restricting their idiocy except in the most egregious cases is bad. This includes idiotic parents doing idiotic things to their children.
I don't really see this as a ban. It's just the court saying that from now on they will enforce existing laws on assault and battery when it comes to circumcision.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-09-2012 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
huh? You don't oppose a ban on the thing you want to do?
Yes, it's actually possible for people to not feel strongly about every issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Thankfully, herd immunity is achieved for the big infectious diseases in most of the first world. So the gain is very small (as is the risk). A quick google says the chance of dying of measles is 1 in 300,000,000. Crazy small. If we were not able to achieve the rates of herd immunity without force then there might be an argument for it, but it appears we are able to do that.
According to this article, in the prognosis section: http://emedicine.medscape.com/articl...ew#aw2aab6b2b5

"The CDC reports the childhood mortality rate from measles infection in the United States to be 0.1-0.2%. However, many complications and sequelae may develop (see Complications), and measles is a major cause of childhood blindness in developing countries."

From the same article in the background section:

"A single dose of measles vaccine administered to a child older than 12 months induces protective immunity in 95% of recipients. Because measles virus is highly contagious, a 5% susceptible population is sufficient to sustain periodic outbreaks in otherwise highly vaccinated populations.

A second dose of vaccine, now recommended for all school-aged children in the United States,[2] induces immunity in about 95% of the 5% who do not respond to the first dose. ...
Considering that for industrialized countries such as the United States, endemic transmission of measles may be reestablished if measles immunity falls to less than 93-95%"

We also see this: http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com...ccination.aspx

"This year’s jump in measles in the United States and Canada was costly and occurred among unvaccinated children and adults"

And it costs us money too: "An outbreak of measles in spring 2011 in Salt Lake County, Utah, began when an unvaccinated local high school student returned home after traveling in Europe, where he was infected. Rapid response to control the outbreak limited it to nine people in Salt Lake County, yet managing the outbreak cost approximately 300,000 for infection control measures by two local hospitals and the local and state health departments."

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Meh, just because people are idiots doesn't mean I want to force their behaviour. Should we force people to eat broccoli and not Lays?
When their idiotic behaviors cause unnecessary risk to their children and other children in the community, we very much can and should force their behaviors.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-09-2012 , 08:44 PM
Cant believe it I found the post I was talking about.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=142

Surprised I remembered this tbh since it was 2 years ago.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-09-2012 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
I don't know if it's a big group, but they definitely exist. You can even go on youtube if you want to follow the progress of those working on regrowing their foreskins.

ETA: Penn and Teller on circumcision, an entertaining 1-sided version of this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b73FmTuGk9w
actually for a bull**** episode, this was surprisingly balanced. None of the players on the pro-circumcised side of things were completely insane
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-10-2012 , 01:12 PM
.
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07-16-2012 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brons
Babies **** on themselves several times a day for a very long time. It's basically all they do. You're supposed to clean them. Even when they're circumcised.
GRUNCH= You don't understand parenting
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-16-2012 , 11:52 AM
Its obvious that in modern society with our democraty and all that stuff, it SHOULD be banned things like that.
Then, what democraty is it, if someone is making decision on YOUR body, before even you can understand what is happening?
Aswell as praying on the streets for muslims should be banned aswell.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-16-2012 , 12:20 PM
Quite the non sequiture there.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-30-2012 , 05:49 PM
Quote: "While both sides in this heated debate have respectable arguments, the scientific study of religion offers some perspectives that have led me to believe the court’s opinion was misguided. Specifically, body modification as a signal of group identity is a pervasive feature of religious cultures worldwide, and such signals can be vitally necessary for groups to survive, and thrive, in a hostile world."

Quote: "Insights into mechanisms such as these, which serve to tighten and bond human communities, often seem quaint or even horrifying to modern cosmopolitan people, who have been raised in a moral system that strongly values individual autonomy and self-determination. This Western individualistic ethical system finds its roots in the liberalism of writers such as John Locke, who saw enforced participation in group norms as coercive, barbaric, and immoral. While I partly share those views, I also have come to recognize that they arise from a very unique set of political and economic circumstances, and that this Lockean individualism simply could not function in most human contexts throughout history."

Circumcision in religion: What does science say?
Article here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/science...c-perspective/

Not arguing. Just informing of an alternate assessment.
German court bans circumcision of young boys Quote
07-30-2012 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splendour
Quote: "While both sides in this heated debate have respectable arguments, the scientific study of religion offers some perspectives that have led me to believe the court’s opinion was misguided. Specifically, body modification as a signal of group identity is a pervasive feature of religious cultures worldwide, and such signals can be vitally necessary for groups to survive, and thrive, in a hostile world."

Quote: "Insights into mechanisms such as these, which serve to tighten and bond human communities, often seem quaint or even horrifying to modern cosmopolitan people, who have been raised in a moral system that strongly values individual autonomy and self-determination. This Western individualistic ethical system finds its roots in the liberalism of writers such as John Locke, who saw enforced participation in group norms as coercive, barbaric, and immoral. While I partly share those views, I also have come to recognize that they arise from a very unique set of political and economic circumstances, and that this Lockean individualism simply could not function in most human contexts throughout history."

Circumcision in religion: What does science say?
Article here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/science...c-perspective/

Not arguing. Just informing of an alternate assessment.
I don't know about that... I could be imposing my cultural bias, but female circumscision is really horrible stuff.
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07-31-2012 , 05:22 AM
I felt like "liking" this post. Way to go!
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