Quote:
Originally Posted by neeeel
such as work ethic, culture of work, cleanliness, not being rude, not swearing, holding knife and fork correctly, nationalism, pride in country, pride in town, dressing smartly, good timekeeping, respect for elders, respect for authority figures, importance of education, being healthy, having friends, being friendly, respect for family, culture of drinking, taboos about sex, sex being seen as highly important and significant, immorality of drugs, obeying orders, self image
is that enough? ( obviously , some of these will overlap with religious views, while secular people will still hold to and propagate these views)
OK, at first I tried to split them into two groups, yes and no, but it was too difficult so I'll tackle each individually (even though this has got nothing at all to do with the Fatwa the thread is about, I'll indulge your digression)
1) Work ethic - I've explained that if they want certain things in life, they'll need a certain work ethic, but since I can't know what they'll value as adults, I haven't 'pushed' any particular ethic
2) culture of work,- not sure what you mean by this or how I'd push a particular culture
3) cleanliness - Yes, I enforce this because I don't want to live with smelly kids and I've explained that generally in life if they don't want people to think they smell, they should wash but once they leave my house it's up to them
4) not being rude - I've explained that most people don't like rude people so it's up to them. I don't tolerate rudeness to me because it undermines my authority and I can't function as a parent without authority. Once they leave home, I'll give up that authority and quite rightly.
5) not swearing - same as cleanliness and rudeness (i don't kid myself that I can stop them swearing anyway)
6) holding knife and fork correctly - same as cleanliness and rudeness and swearing
5) nationalism - we've discussed why someone would think their country superior, I haven't expressed personal views on it
6) pride in country - as above
7) dressing smartly - we've covered the pros and cons, it's up to them though and to a certain extent we don't let them wear really shabby clothes because it might reflect badly on us as parents, not because smart is better than shabby, or whatever
8) good timekeeping - same answer as work ethic, to function in a society, being punctual is an advantage
9) respect for elders, respect for authority figures, - same answer as 4
10) importance of education - I've explained how being educated might benefit them but I can't make them learn or be interested in something that doesn't interest them, it's not actually possible
11) being healthy - ?? Nothing else on your list matters if you're not alive so assuming that you don't consider killing yourself through neglect as an equal life view to being healthy, then yes, I'm guilty of encouraging them to be healthy...
12) being friendly, respect for family, - same answer as 4
13) culture of drinking, - I've explained the effects and dangers of many drugs to them, not just alcohol. I expect them to use drugs (I haven't pushed it either way, no pun intended), at least they'll be doing it from an informed position
14) taboos about sex - I've explained why pedophilia and incest are taboos, nothing else has come up really that I recall
15) sex being seen as highly important and significant - I haven't said either way whether or not it's 'highly important and significant', those are your words. What I
have tried to do is be open and give them the info they need to make decisions about sex.
16) immorality of drugs - I've explained why some people think drugs are 'bad' and why some don't. I haven't pushed a personal position
17) obeying orders - mostly the same answer as 4 but 'orders' are slightly different (unless you include 'instructions?), it would entirely depend on who was giving them and the circumstances, I don't know what I'd say about this, not enough info.
18) self image - doesn't really come up. I've tried to help them deal with school crap by explaining why kids act like they do but again, I haven't pushed a particular 'self image'.
This list includes different types of belief and that's something we've never managed to agree on, why teaching a child that 2+2=4 is different from telling them that a god exists, beyond doubt, and anyone who disagrees is wrong.