Fighting terrible arguments with... different terrible arguments.

Wow, that rhymes.

That's some gentle comedy.

I wasn't calling *your* arguments terrible.

The article itself mentions that there are Muslim Astronauts, the Fatwa is specifically wrt the 'Mars One' Mar mission.

Please read the articles linked in posts that you are replying to.

Profound, deep, and true
But one syllable too many
to be a Haiku

There once was a fellow named Boosh
And his views he was eager to push
His logic was bad
And made everyone mad
For he always spoke out his tush.

That's a bit unnecessary, I wasn't having a go at you, it was a joke.

'Boosh' and 'Tush'?

Banter.

Assonance.

When I'm not in the pub I'm a lay Mufti and I declare a fatwa on this thread. I have spoken.

Now send money.

Boosh the above is your op, I already posted a video explaining to you how a Muslim (who decides to pray in space) prays in space. Lets also keep in mind its very possibly for a Muslim to go to space and not pray or do religious activities while in space.

IF you would have made a thread praising a Muslim astronaut then I wouldn't be questioning your motive, but instead you made some thread titled Fatwa forbids Muslims from 'suicidal' Mars mission.


Your OP is enough to get folks to think well, heres another anti Islam thread from Boosh.

Go ahead boosh, tell me I'm wrong again or that I somehow misread the line of Fatwa forbids Muslims from 'suicidal' Mars mission

Boosh, here you said this in your op,

Previously even you said Muslims can be good people(in some fashion you said this) so why do you make the above comment?

Islam is a great religion and more important, what in the world do you expect folks to take out of your above comment? And no this isnt some hippie pov I'm just telling you my viewpoint. It has to be something for the random reader to see that you MB, a staunch Atheist continue to very critical of large groups of people, this is not the way to go MB.

Where in my OP am I "very critical of large groups of people"?

Before you answer, consider that I am treating Muslims and Islam as two distinct elements. Muslims are the followers of Islam, Islam is the belief system.

Oh please. You are ridiculing the religion and therefore the people the people who follow it. You made no effort to limit the joke to a small group of snake handlers; it's generalized. Now you deny all rather than have the balls to say yes, I disparage Muslims.

Much better with perfect rhymes though

This hair split won't defend you from anything.

I don't think it's a hair split. Why do you think it is?

Your opinion is moronic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are a moron my goodness there is a huge difference between you and the moronic opinions you hold. In fact I am saying nothing at all about you when I tell you that your thoughts are moronic. Sure, I get that you hold your opinion very dearly and it forms a core part of your identify, but nonetheless I can draw a clear line between you and your opinion and as long as I word my post very carefully I can make sure I am only insulting your opinion, and not you.

Convinced I am not insulting you?

P1) Atheism is amoral.
P2) uke_master is an atheist.
C1) Therefore, uke_master is amoral.

Don't get me wrong, MB's op is moronic. But it can be fine and fair to draw a distinctions between an ideology / worldview and it's adherents. For a less facetious example, many muslims criticize contemporary Islam for resisting modernity. Are those muslims criticizing themselves?

No I'm not convinced at all. I don't think it's a good analogy though. I think what you wrote misses the point that Muslims don't just happen to have Islamic opinions, they were taught those opinions by the institution of Islam. Islam is the idea, they are just the vessel. They may hold the idea, and live by it's rules, to varying degrees, but the institution itself is unwavering in it's desire to instill those opinions. I reject the general idea of the religion of Islam without necessarily throwing the baby out with the bath water and rejecting all Muslims at the same time.

More light hearted banter?

I think that to a significant extent Islam suppresses freedom of choice, more than any other extant religion that I'm aware of. Do you disagree?

I think that if the hazards of colonising the solar system kept Muslims on Earth, that would reduce the likelihood of religious friction as we spread out (now if we could just persuade Christians to do the same thing), and I think the problem for Muslims of praying, if they were on Mars, highlights the contrived and ritualistic nature of facing Mecca when praying.

Perhaps not opinions that float your highbrow boat, but calling the OP moronic is, again, unnecessarily unpleasant of you.

When the topic is snake-handling you think religious people should have less choice about whether to avoid harm. When a muslim cleric says that muslims should avoid (potential) harm in going to Mars, you are all about more choice.

As ever, you derive your criticisms of religion not from some well thought-out general principle, but from whatever argument or principle serves your anti-theistic rhetoric right here right now.

This is moronic. If anything it becomes a whole lot easier to work out which way to face Mecca when in space. And of course that ritual is ritualistic. You are not providing insightful commentary; you are attempting to make a cheap joke at the expense of muslims.

Am I too understand that here you are only finding a problem with Islam, and not Muslims who practice Islam? You are insisting that the distinction is very meaningful, but you seem to forget to even consistently use the later.

I said 'off planet' not 'space'. That includes other planets, like Mars, and I would say that calculating the position of Mecca when you are no longer static to it relatively, becomes much harder. Where on Earth you could face the same direction every day as long as you don't move, on Mars you're moving relatively to Mecca due to the planet's spin and Mecca itself is moving due to the Earth's spin and completely different solar orbit. This would even be true for LEO where Mecca would be moving underneath you at 29,000kph.

If Muslims receive some special dispensation due to the circumstances, or can simply approximate and meet the requirements anyway, then that would be the answer to my question, not 'you're a moron'.

Firstly, no I don't think that. If religious people want to risk death by snake bite they should be allowed to do it. The point was that there is a law in Kentucky making that illegal but the authorities were to worried about offending religious freedoms to prosecute. That's what I objected to. Second. When I look at all the religions from the perspective of freedom of choice, I think Islam is the most controlling and religion most guilty of the suppression of contrary thought. Do you disagree?

I might be guilty of this sometimes but I don't deliberately use rhetoric. Wrt to 'religious control', this has been a 'general principle' and objection of mine to religion for a long time. It underpins many facets of religion including, for example, the passing on of religious belief to children, which I consider a form of religious control. So, not guilty on this occasion.

Not everyone is on your level, some people may never have considered it from this perspective before. As for 'cheap joke', nope, it wasn't a joke.

No, of course I have issues with the thoughts and actions of individual or groups of Muslims but that is distinct from the idea of the religion of Islam and that's what this thread is about, the fatwa issued by the institution of slam, not rank and file Muslims.

Last week I had dinner with a Libyan friend I haven't seen for over 25 years. Practically the first thing he did was thrust into my hand a booklet called 'Science in the Qur'an' and he left a Qur'an behind for me to read too. We didn't discuss it because it wasn't the right occasion but the next time I see him we will probably discuss it. Right now I am 'finding a problem' with Islam, and I might find a problem with some or all of what my friend believes, but right now I don't know what that is. What's a little annoying is that this is a big improvement on how I was when I started posting here but I'm still getting a hard time, but now for the opposite reason.

By the logic implied (in this satire) we can't criticize doctrine for being stupid without claiming its adherents are stupid.

I really wish that was true. Sadly, however, ignorant doctrines are usually worst when pushed by smart people.