Existing Before you Were Born...
01-23-2009
, 12:47 AM
[QUOTE=Justin A;8322218]Take it Carlo...
[/QUOTEIf you're willing/able to believe things that don't make any sense, then give reincarnation a spin.
There's nothing calmer than knowing that you've fallen a million times from the rough hands of Birth to the warm embrace of Death, and back again...again...again...]
Got it Justin A
The idea that souls came out of the fount of God, new and fresh, is an Aristotelian concept as Aristotle had lost that perception which his teacher Plato knew of that being reincarnation and karma. Aristotle's perception then became the western consideration of these matters and of course was spread to the western world which was in the midst of developing the intellect and logic. The spiritual perception was lost to mankind for good reason as in order to develop our Ego it was necessary to release ourselves from the spiritual in which we are ensconced even today but not cogently aware of. The Christian Church and science itself as a continuation of Aristotelian thought accepted his considerations for Mankind itself had of course lost this perception for Man could not see as ancient peoples could as they knew there was a spiritual world as they lived in it while on earth in an atavistic clairvoyance, not perfect, but more of like a dream like condition especially while asleep.Perception of the beings of the spiritual world was not a debatable issue for not having logic and intellect to cloud the issue they lived within this definite perception. From this comes the various myths of the beings of that world we meet in ancient tomes where the picture of these beings were written because of their particular cognitive abilities. The myths were clear to ancient Man for he absolutely knew of the existence of these beings, this being their way of knowledge without logic which was not necessary for this understanding. They had a direct perception much like you and I would see a tree and therefore there was no debate.
Short form: there is a spiritual world which contains beings which includes us and they were known to some extent as a direct perception in a state of atavistic clairvoyance. Mankind's meanderings in this world after death could also be appreciated by direct perception but this was a matter of individual ability and was practiced in the mystery centers and brought into a clear presentation by people who were called "initiates". This particular period of time that was closest to us was during the Greco Roman age which lasted from about 700 B.C. to 1400 A.D.
This perception was much more pronounced in previous ages as Mankind gradually lost the ability to "sup" with this world. In the Biblical account of Man's first entry into earthly matter we have the Fall in which Man was totally ensconced within the spiritual world and gradually he lost that perception. He was literally a being without a sense of self or "I" or "Ego" and you might say that he felt himself to being an ego less part of a great cosmic harmony. The Fall relates to that time in which his "Ego", that drop of the Divine, was given to him and since that time the "Ego" has worked within an earthly perception but not all at once. This marked "Ego" sense in the progression of time was not totally free of his home until the beginning of our present age at the moment of the event of Golgotha. Only then were we released from that spiritual world. the ancients knew that Mankind was to return to the spiritual world but if he did not gain help he would have fallen into the depths of degradation of materiality and separated from the home to which he belongs. This Impulse to return, while working the earth, was the Christ Impulse which sits in the hearts of all men as our guide and living example of the end state of man in so far as he is an earthly being. The earth is transformed for Mankind is the earth spirit which through recurrent lives transforms not only himself but the total being of the earth itself.
Wow, that was short.
OK, from the above you may see that Man is a spiritual being . The perception is that you are not your physical body as science or moderns may think. "I walk through the doorway" is better stated " I, working within the spiritual world, carry my body through the doorway". Yes, the body is my possession, but it is not me and when I die the physical apparatus which is the minerality of this body is returned to the earth for it belongs on the earthbut it is not the total me.
If I am a spiritual being( the human being has four "bodies" for want of a better word) then in this world the idea of "death" as we know it is non existent. Death is a passage in which we are "born into the spirit" and birth is a passage in which "we die to the spirit". In successive lives we do our earthly work and in the process transform ourselves and our fellow human beings in a grand symphony of freedom and Love which in the end of earthly time brings that great transformation to mankind. Earth is and will be known as the "Planet of Love".
The idea of millions and millions of lifetimes is abject misunderstanding enclosed in a tired cloak meant to display a fatigue but of no substance. There was a beginning of reincarnation and and an end to reincarnation. The above speaks to the transformation of earth and Man in which there is no longer death. The Fall was the beginning or entry into the earth in which you could say that something like reincarnation and karma had it's beginnings. In the spiritual world there is not "death' but a metamorphosis into other forms . This is not a good understanding but I'll have to leave it here. Mankind is an immortal being doing not only his work for himself and his brethren but nobly engaged in a cosmic deed for all , not only of Man.
Long ago I read a Gnostic saying which might give some small hint of the work of mankind. I don't have it exactly but here goes.
There was consternation in the heavens for that battle of light and darkness was of concern. The light would not force its will on the darkness knowing this was the path of darkness and there was a meeting in the heavens for darkness kept encroaching on the light. If this continued the idea of universal darkness became a reality. Then behold, noble Man came on the scene and entered the darkness in a sublime work of transforming the darkness. Giving himself up , in sacrifice, the heavens breathed a sigh of relief, as noble Man brought darkness into himself in a loving transformation. A picture of a polarity of light and darkness and through the Christ Impulse we have the colors of the rainbow ; shades of red, yellow, closest to the light and shades of blue, violet, etc. closest to the darkness. In a way this is a picture of a Manichean presentation in which mankind brings darkness into himself in order to bring salvation to this darkness through the light.
Reincarnation and Karma has beginning and end. Periods of time between incarnations is about 800-900 years but not fixed in stone . The interval is dependent upon the needs of the individual man and his fellow travelers and the earth itself. Possible to incarnate after 200 years and there are always good reasons for this but in the main is a loving boon to the individual man.
Its important to realize that Man, in previous times, if we could go back with our senses, could be seen as a floating cloud like being in a world of air and mist. My earliest( first) reading of Steiner gave me great pain because I couldn't conceive of a man without arms and legs. The book laid on an end table for six months before I could pick it up again. Just a personal note here but the further back in time the less recognizable the man of today becomes. If you expect to see legs you wont get it. The spirit being, man, worked through this cloud like earthly materiality just as he worked through his body of today.
[/QUOTEIf you're willing/able to believe things that don't make any sense, then give reincarnation a spin.
There's nothing calmer than knowing that you've fallen a million times from the rough hands of Birth to the warm embrace of Death, and back again...again...again...]
Got it Justin AThe idea that souls came out of the fount of God, new and fresh, is an Aristotelian concept as Aristotle had lost that perception which his teacher Plato knew of that being reincarnation and karma. Aristotle's perception then became the western consideration of these matters and of course was spread to the western world which was in the midst of developing the intellect and logic. The spiritual perception was lost to mankind for good reason as in order to develop our Ego it was necessary to release ourselves from the spiritual in which we are ensconced even today but not cogently aware of. The Christian Church and science itself as a continuation of Aristotelian thought accepted his considerations for Mankind itself had of course lost this perception for Man could not see as ancient peoples could as they knew there was a spiritual world as they lived in it while on earth in an atavistic clairvoyance, not perfect, but more of like a dream like condition especially while asleep.Perception of the beings of the spiritual world was not a debatable issue for not having logic and intellect to cloud the issue they lived within this definite perception. From this comes the various myths of the beings of that world we meet in ancient tomes where the picture of these beings were written because of their particular cognitive abilities. The myths were clear to ancient Man for he absolutely knew of the existence of these beings, this being their way of knowledge without logic which was not necessary for this understanding. They had a direct perception much like you and I would see a tree and therefore there was no debate.
Short form: there is a spiritual world which contains beings which includes us and they were known to some extent as a direct perception in a state of atavistic clairvoyance. Mankind's meanderings in this world after death could also be appreciated by direct perception but this was a matter of individual ability and was practiced in the mystery centers and brought into a clear presentation by people who were called "initiates". This particular period of time that was closest to us was during the Greco Roman age which lasted from about 700 B.C. to 1400 A.D.
This perception was much more pronounced in previous ages as Mankind gradually lost the ability to "sup" with this world. In the Biblical account of Man's first entry into earthly matter we have the Fall in which Man was totally ensconced within the spiritual world and gradually he lost that perception. He was literally a being without a sense of self or "I" or "Ego" and you might say that he felt himself to being an ego less part of a great cosmic harmony. The Fall relates to that time in which his "Ego", that drop of the Divine, was given to him and since that time the "Ego" has worked within an earthly perception but not all at once. This marked "Ego" sense in the progression of time was not totally free of his home until the beginning of our present age at the moment of the event of Golgotha. Only then were we released from that spiritual world. the ancients knew that Mankind was to return to the spiritual world but if he did not gain help he would have fallen into the depths of degradation of materiality and separated from the home to which he belongs. This Impulse to return, while working the earth, was the Christ Impulse which sits in the hearts of all men as our guide and living example of the end state of man in so far as he is an earthly being. The earth is transformed for Mankind is the earth spirit which through recurrent lives transforms not only himself but the total being of the earth itself.
Wow, that was short.OK, from the above you may see that Man is a spiritual being . The perception is that you are not your physical body as science or moderns may think. "I walk through the doorway" is better stated " I, working within the spiritual world, carry my body through the doorway". Yes, the body is my possession, but it is not me and when I die the physical apparatus which is the minerality of this body is returned to the earth for it belongs on the earthbut it is not the total me.
If I am a spiritual being( the human being has four "bodies" for want of a better word) then in this world the idea of "death" as we know it is non existent. Death is a passage in which we are "born into the spirit" and birth is a passage in which "we die to the spirit". In successive lives we do our earthly work and in the process transform ourselves and our fellow human beings in a grand symphony of freedom and Love which in the end of earthly time brings that great transformation to mankind. Earth is and will be known as the "Planet of Love".
The idea of millions and millions of lifetimes is abject misunderstanding enclosed in a tired cloak meant to display a fatigue but of no substance. There was a beginning of reincarnation and and an end to reincarnation. The above speaks to the transformation of earth and Man in which there is no longer death. The Fall was the beginning or entry into the earth in which you could say that something like reincarnation and karma had it's beginnings. In the spiritual world there is not "death' but a metamorphosis into other forms . This is not a good understanding but I'll have to leave it here. Mankind is an immortal being doing not only his work for himself and his brethren but nobly engaged in a cosmic deed for all , not only of Man.
Long ago I read a Gnostic saying which might give some small hint of the work of mankind. I don't have it exactly but here goes.
There was consternation in the heavens for that battle of light and darkness was of concern. The light would not force its will on the darkness knowing this was the path of darkness and there was a meeting in the heavens for darkness kept encroaching on the light. If this continued the idea of universal darkness became a reality. Then behold, noble Man came on the scene and entered the darkness in a sublime work of transforming the darkness. Giving himself up , in sacrifice, the heavens breathed a sigh of relief, as noble Man brought darkness into himself in a loving transformation. A picture of a polarity of light and darkness and through the Christ Impulse we have the colors of the rainbow ; shades of red, yellow, closest to the light and shades of blue, violet, etc. closest to the darkness. In a way this is a picture of a Manichean presentation in which mankind brings darkness into himself in order to bring salvation to this darkness through the light.
Reincarnation and Karma has beginning and end. Periods of time between incarnations is about 800-900 years but not fixed in stone . The interval is dependent upon the needs of the individual man and his fellow travelers and the earth itself. Possible to incarnate after 200 years and there are always good reasons for this but in the main is a loving boon to the individual man.
Its important to realize that Man, in previous times, if we could go back with our senses, could be seen as a floating cloud like being in a world of air and mist. My earliest( first) reading of Steiner gave me great pain because I couldn't conceive of a man without arms and legs. The book laid on an end table for six months before I could pick it up again. Just a personal note here but the further back in time the less recognizable the man of today becomes. If you expect to see legs you wont get it. The spirit being, man, worked through this cloud like earthly materiality just as he worked through his body of today.
01-23-2009
, 05:25 AM
