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everybody draw mohammed day on facebook everybody draw mohammed day on facebook

05-20-2010 , 03:37 PM
So a Jew, a Christian, and a Muslim walk into a bar and

[PUNCHLINE REDACTED FOR FEAR OF SUICIDE BOMBERS, OH WAIT IS THAT OFFENSIVE TOO, SHOULD WE REDACT THAT?]
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05-20-2010 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelchyBeau
It was a planned protest, pretty soon after the threats of violence occurred someone made this poster.
Well, maybe it WILL achieve some purpose then. I could be wrong. Look, anyone who knows me at all from these forums should know that I agree with the basic premise. Something does need to be done to show that we won't kowtow to threats and intimidation. I just question if there's not a better way. I'm also against insulting for the sake of insulting.
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05-20-2010 , 03:43 PM
How offensive were the southpark cartoons anyway?

First time Muhammed was represented he had super powers and saved the world. OFFENSIVE.

the second one, he bought lemonade I think?

The third one, he borrowed some sugar or something?

OFFENSIVE

the last 2 episodes, Muhammed was not even shown

Spoiler:
It was santa in the bear costume


The intent of the cartoons were to make fun of the media for censoring themselves in fear of offending muslims.
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05-20-2010 , 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat
I draw a huge distinction here. If you're offended by people being who they are, then deal with it. This is the main reason I (and you?) feel the fundamentalist Muslims initial response to some cartoons was an overreaction.

But the difference here (to me), is that this has no purpose other than to offend. It is not meant in a comedic context, nor is it sticking up for who they are. Unless you want to say that it is a statement sticking up for free speech, which would be fine. But I think that should have been done immediately after the fact (as in Comedy Central refusing to be bullied, etc.). If this facebook page came out the day after, I might see a connection. But I just don't see any good that can be accomplished from this. It seems more like baiting than a legitimate protest of any kind. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.
While I'm up in the air about this stunt, I still offer what I DO like about this.

I think we can all agree that we value freedom of speech. And we likely agree with some (if not all) of the people who have been threatened or attacked for drawing images.

What I like about this is... if only a few select professional editorial cartoonists are doing this, then there are few targets for Muslim Extremists. That can discourage freedom of speech.

If thousands of people do it, it takes attention away from potential targets and lets extremists know, perhaps, that they cannot stop it.
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05-20-2010 , 03:51 PM
offensive image to muslims in spoiler. Don't click if you are easily offended and decide to blow yourself up in crowds full of innocent people.

Spoiler:
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05-20-2010 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Well, maybe it WILL achieve some purpose then. I could be wrong. Look, anyone who knows me at all from these forums should know that I agree with the basic premise. Something does need to be done to show that we won't kowtow to threats and intimidation. I just question if there's not a better way. I'm also against insulting for the sake of insulting.
Better way? - it's hard to think of situations that some approach could claim "there is no better way." that doesn't take away from approaches that are doing something useful.
"insulting for insulting sake" .. cheeez, do you really think the issue is "let's go insult muslims" rather than "let's not allow muslims control our freedom and show it en masse". Whether it's +EV is not even relevant to motive.
ok, we definitely disagree and strongly. I'll move on.
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05-20-2010 , 04:12 PM
As a moderate atheist who doesn't know where the universe came form im offended by theists who say, lol you think the universe came form nothing. Please stop this jesting because you're hurting my felling and disrespecting my beliefs. Plus the fundies will be coming to kill y'all if you dont stop.
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05-20-2010 , 05:06 PM
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I think in your zealousness to defend the right of free speech, you are ignoring the *right* of people to feel however they want about something.
no, it has nothing to do with how people feel. its how people react to how they feel that is the problem. as i said, everyone gets offended from time to time. there is nothing wrong with that.

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Again, you don't get to tell people how they should feel about something. You don't have to agree with it and might even think it's silly, but you are the one being intolerant if you don't at least recognize a person's right to be offended.
again, i never said anything about telling people how they should feel. i DO think its silly that they are offended by depictions of mohammed, but if that offense was left there, this thread wouldnt even exist. nobody cares about people taking offense, we care about their reaction. and that is what this is about.

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I'm NOT saying you can't call them silly or make fun of them, but to expect them not to be offended because YOU find it silly, is intolerant, -IMO.
um, i expect them to be offended. your post doesnt make a lot of sense.
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05-20-2010 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
No rational person should choose to make a joke (or something of the like) if there are very real possibilities of violent repercussions especially when making that joke will not further the cause of peace.

In any action one makes they should ask themselves, what good can come from this?
You're separating the justice of the cause from concern for personal safety. They are separate questions. However, I'll admit that I didn't sign up on the rare chance that some crazy could come after me. If I was single with no kids, maybe, but just seemed like a good idea not to fan the page or post a pic.
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05-20-2010 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
No rational person should choose to make a joke (or something of the like) if there are very real possibilities of violent repercussions especially when making that joke will not further the cause of peace.
take this back IMMEDIATELY or i will ****ing kill you.










edit: obviously im joking, but youre basically implying that rule by force should hold sway. if someone threatens you with violence, they win. dont take a stand. just accept it and move out of harms way.

Last edited by Dying Actors; 05-20-2010 at 05:16 PM.
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05-20-2010 , 05:12 PM
100K likes of the facebook page.

I personally find about 90% of the images loaded on the page to be offensive, but I will 100% support people's right to post them.

In my mind, this is not about east vs. west. And it's not about non-religious vs. religious.

It's about taking a stand and saying that no one deserves to have their life threatened over a drawing. No one has the right to stop art using the threat of violence. This is a non-violent protest against terrorism. And that's it.
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05-20-2010 , 05:14 PM
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This is a non-violent protest against terrorism.
QFMFT.
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05-20-2010 , 05:20 PM
People have the right to draw whatever they want. Muslims don't have the right to threaten to kill people because of their freedoms.

This isn't hard
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05-20-2010 , 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rizeagainst
People have the right to draw whatever they want. Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be offended by other people's freedoms.

This isn't hard
they can be offended, they just can justifiably use that offense to threaten or inflict harm.
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05-20-2010 , 06:01 PM
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.

"The spread of Islam was military. There is a tendency to
apologize for this and we should not. It is one of the
injunctions of the Qur'an that you must fight to spread Islam."
Dr. Ali Issa Othman, Islamic Scholar
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05-20-2010 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibninjas
This is a major point imo. I am not for some form of government controlling something like this facebook thing, but I do think that it is utterly absurd that people participate in this. Especially when there could be ramifications to this stunt. Certainly Mulsims resorting to violence is terrible, but why are people trying to egg them on? Is there some sort of reason that people need to draw pictures of Mohammad?

This is just a classic example of people being childish that could possibly end very badly.
What it achieves is that it makes it much harder for terrorists to threaten the life of everyone who makes a depiction of Mohammed. If only one person does it at a time, like in the past, it's easy for them to go after that one person (it's not just threats: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ist-axe-attack). When the whole world does it at once, they stand no chance.
Terrorism is about making people afraid; when everybody does what terrorism does not want you to do, terrorists lose.
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05-20-2010 , 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by █████
What it achieves is that it makes it much harder for terrorists to threaten the life of everyone who makes a depiction of Mohammed. If only one person does it at a time, like in the past, it's easy for them to go after that one person (it's not just threats: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ist-axe-attack). When the whole world does it at once, they stand no chance.
Terrorism is about making people afraid; when everybody does what terrorism does not want you to do, terrorists lose.
I agree with this. I find it pretty funny, but even if I didnt and even if I took offence, I would still appreciate why people are doing this. As someone has mentioned above it isnt a west v east issue or an anti-muslim issue. It is to do with people feeling sick and tired of pandering to easily offended and violent people who do not respect the right of free speech even when not even in their own country. People should of course be allowed to voice their objections just as people can voice their support. I personally like the idea and if I had a facebook I would no doubt add my own.
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05-20-2010 , 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Vantek
Everyone who see a problem with this,

Do you at least agree that if it were the case that mainstream muslims in general really were significantly oppressive towards freedom of speech, then objections of this type would be acceptable?
Yeah, it would be fine. How many Muslims are out there killing people for depicting the prophet? Like, almost none. So insulting an entire religion (or, many whatever) for the action of a few zealots I don't see the point at all. You aren't Rosa Parks (lol) for drawing some picture.
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05-20-2010 , 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerok
If I don't post pictures of Muhammad then they win? That sucks. Anyway, I wouldn't want them posting pictures of dead Americans or something on their facebook, so I'll show them some courtesy by not posting what they find offensive - it doesn't affect me in any way, anyway.
actually it's more like them showing pictures of jesus nailed to a ... oh ****
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Maybe. Or it's to spread a little more intolerance and rile the extremist up even more.
The whole point is that if everyone stands up to them, they will have to kill all of us and when they try, the west will see them for the threat to humanity that they are.
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05-20-2010 , 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by vixticator
So insulting an entire religion (or, many whatever) for the action of a few zealots I don't see the point at all. You aren't Rosa Parks (lol) for drawing some picture.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2009.htm

Boy, sure does look like there's only a few of them to me!

Still think it has nothing to do with Islam?
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05-20-2010 , 08:45 PM
Just because there are muslims who don't want to convert, enslave or kill all of us doesn't mean that isn't the point of Islam. Islam deserves being warned against and if people feel offended because they don't understand the point of their religion, that's too bad.

Islam=Qu'ran=bad news for you and me
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05-20-2010 , 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Arouet
You're separating the justice of the cause from concern for personal safety. They are separate questions. However, I'll admit that I didn't sign up on the rare chance that some crazy could come after me. If I was single with no kids, maybe, but just seemed like a good idea not to fan the page or post a pic.
I've tried looking at the people who've liked it and I don't think you can see an actual list, just the last 6 or whatever. Nobody would know.

For the record, I have elected not to sign up.
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05-20-2010 , 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rizeagainst
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2009.htm

Boy, sure does look like there's only a few of them to me!

Still think it has nothing to do with Islam?
I don't get the point of this link. Are these people going to see westerners making depictions of the prophet and realize the error of their ways? Or, they will see our resolve and lay down their arms? No, and no.
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05-20-2010 , 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vixticator
I don't get the point of this link. Are these people going to see westerners making depictions of the prophet and realize the error of their ways? Or, they will see our resolve and lay down their arms? No, and no.
At the very least they should realize how futile their censorship efforts are. Think about how ridiculous they would look if they threatened 100,000 people on facebook with death. When people unite like this and refuse to be threatened the terrorists lose all of their power.
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05-20-2010 , 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Janabis
At the very least they should realize how futile their censorship efforts are. Think about how ridiculous they would look if they threatened 100,000 people on facebook with death. When people unite like this and refuse to be threatened the terrorists lose all of their power.
But the rizeagainst link doesn't have much anything to do with censorship. Depicting the prophet on facebook is not going to make Islamic radicals in Paikistan, Thailand, Indonesia, etc, drop their cause or re-evaluate it in any way. It will simply make them angrier. And while they can't track down and kill all of these people on facebook, they can certainly retaliate in other ways.
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