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05-20-2010 , 12:57 AM
From wikipedia

Quote:
The Metropolitan Museum of Art in January 2010 confirmed to the New York Post that it had quietly removed all historic paintings which contained depictions of Muhammad from public exhibition. The Museum quoted objections on the part of conservative Muslims which were "under review." The museum's action was criticized as excessive political correctness, also apparent in other recent decision, including the renaming of the "Primitive Art Galleries" to the "Arts of Africa, Oceania and the Americas" and the projected "Islamic Galleries" to "Arab Lands, Turkey, Iran, Central Asia and Later South Asia".[39]
Some of the same extremist muslims have killed 35 people associated with Rushdie.

They are also offended by Dante's Inferno. Should we ban that book as well?

Where do we draw the line to make sure we don't offend them?
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05-20-2010 , 12:59 AM


Early Renaissance painting of Muhammed a plot was foiled in 2002 to blow up the church in where this fresco was.

Another plot was foiled in 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Petronio_Basilica

Last edited by MelchyBeau; 05-20-2010 at 01:04 AM. Reason: added link and 2006
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05-20-2010 , 01:10 AM
Do you remember the Holocaust Cartoon Competition put on by an Iranian Newspaper?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...on_Competition

Do you know what the response from Israel was?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...rtoons_contest
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05-20-2010 , 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
If the biggest media outlets who make their living off of free speech aren't willing to stick up for the 1st amendment, it is THEY who we should be boycotting and insulting. Not the entire Islamic faith, most of whom had nothing to do with this. Just my opinion.
Not everyone agrees with this. I don't, on two levels. One is the generic "moderates enable" grounds and the other is on this specific area they agree with the extremists ... My free speech is to be curtailed.
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05-20-2010 , 01:57 AM
I believe all religions should be ridiculed equally.
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05-20-2010 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
I see nothing insulting in my post
Yeah, but we all we need to do is find someone (Melchy), or a group of people, that claims that they were in fact insulted by it and then according to your argument it would "uncharitable and immoral" to continue espousing those views, since after all, you now know that you're "insulting" someone if you do so.

Or maybe *just maybe* they're wrong for having taken it as an insult, and you have the ability to speak (or draw) freely regardless.
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05-20-2010 , 02:38 AM
I'm kind of with Jerok/Lestat but I understand the idea behind "draw muhammad day." People want to participate, whatever. I just don't think it accomplishes much. It's amusing that Pakistan would ban facebook over this though, lol. No Muslims are going to be searching through facebook "draw muhammad day" and start idol worshiping any of the pictures and that's the whole purpose behind the rule. It seems idolatrous in a way that people would be offended by pictures because they hold him in such high regard, you know? Like he's too great to be conceived, which is the opposite of the intention behind the rule.
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05-20-2010 , 02:54 AM
In case any of you are interested, Mason deleted a 4L thread that had a few non-offensive Mohammad drawings in it and we are trying to get him to explain his reasoning in ATF.
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05-20-2010 , 03:01 AM
The reason i think this is a brilliant page is that the extremists have been able to silence and scare people from criticizing and mocking islam.

When some caricaturist draws something that offends them they know who he is and issue death threats, even if they do not succeed in killing they do cause a major change in that person's life and that's enough to deter most others, there would be a lot more criticism of islam if artists and politicians were not afraid of the violent response.
As john cleese said in the last python documentary, if we had made a film about the life of mohammed and not about jesus, we wouldn't be sitting here today.

But once tens of thousands of people do it on a webpage, the extremists are powerless as they can't possibly issue tens of thousands of threats or try to kill all members of the group, it shows them that there are plenty of people who will not give up on their right to say what they think.

Also i think it could have a moderating effect on some muslims, there have now been thousands of drawings posted and the sky hasn't fallen down, nor has the earth swallowed the unbelievers. it should make them more jaded and open to criticism.
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05-20-2010 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilSteve
I don't have a facebook account (and don't want one), but I support this. You're not doing any violence to Muslims by drawing pictures of Mohammed, and those who threaten violence over such things deserve to be mocked, at the least.
So to mock these individuals you engage in organized ridiculing of a person held sacred by an entire religion made up of many more than the group calling for violence.

While I can understand your need to show your discordance with the group threatening your free speech, you can not possibly think that opening the door to hatred and bigotry as well as offending countless others in the process is the best solution to this. If you don't believe me visit the link and see for yourself the fruits of this "mocking."

There is a reason such a protest exists on facebook where the majority of members are young. It is a childish solution to a problem. The majority of these photos are not simple protests against an idea but rather a chance to spew ignorance and hate.

Lastly, the sum of this protest is the offending of many in order to get back at a few which if I am interpreting correctly is the same reason the extremists attacked the U.S. in the first place: attacking the entire country for the transgressions of a few past American policies. While the two obviously differ in scope and significance, they are the same base concept. Opening the door to hate is never the best way and if this juvenile way of "mocking" those who deserve it hurts others in the process you need to find a better way.

If you are truly after these individuals and not the religion of Islam, then here's a crazy idea: how about instead of drawing pictures of Muhammad, draw pics of the people who say he shouldn't be drawn and ridicule them instead.
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05-20-2010 , 05:33 AM
Finally a thread about this.


Yeah, good thing this is going down.


Free speech for the win!

If not for that we will all be sent back to the dark ages! PROTECT YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

booooooo islam boooo

lol
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05-20-2010 , 05:35 AM
5 star thread!


wooohoooo


I support thunderf00t and this facebook movement thing 100%
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05-20-2010 , 06:00 AM
I'm a pussy so there's no way I'm joining a group like that using my real name.

Edit: 77k people... I think I'm safe.
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05-20-2010 , 06:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I actually think Jerok has a point. It doesn't seem right to go out of your way to insult someone's faith either. The overwhelming majority of Muslims did not make physical threats. So why do they deserve to be blatantly insulted yet again?

Lastly, isn't this very old news? Did I miss something? Why is this uprising for free speech just coming about now?
The issue here really is that just because people get insulted by something, it doesn't mean they SHOULD get insulted by something, or that someone should avoid doing said thing.

People are mocking an idea. There is no reason why someone should get offended by that. If I say religion is silly and dumb, why get offended by a difference in opinion? But some people choose to do so and then it becomes PC to try and tip-toe around them.
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05-20-2010 , 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixT4
The issue here really is that just because people get insulted by something, it doesn't mean they SHOULD get insulted by something, or that someone should avoid doing said thing.

People are mocking an idea. There is no reason why someone should get offended by that. If I say religion is silly and dumb, why get offended by a difference in opinion? But some people choose to do so and then it becomes PC to try and tip-toe around them.
This is just a bizarre post. Nobody should ever be offended by anything? I believe people ought to have the right to say anything and speech should be protected, but this doesn't mean you *should* go around intentionally offending people just for the sake of it. It is also perfectly reasonable for people to be offended by, you know, offensive behavior. Also, there is a good reason behind political correctness. Thank goodness for it. I wouldn't want to live in a society without it.
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05-20-2010 , 07:33 AM
Pfft, please. I didn't say nobody should be offended by anything*. Nor did I say people should go around and try to offend people for the sake of it. There's still a bit of space left if you want to try and cram more words into my mouth.

I said just because people DO get offended by someone mocking an idea, doesn't mean they SHOULD feel insulted by that. If someone thinks religion is dumb, OK, they have a differing opinion. Why get offended? And that just because they choose to feel insulted, doesn't mean we should intentionally refrain from mocking said idea.



*Although, on a side note this is kinda true. Nobody needs to feel insulted by anything. Nobody forces you to feel insulted, it's something you choose yourself. That's not to say people should be disrespectful of people and treat them like crap however.This will cause a derail, but meh.
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05-20-2010 , 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerok
Let me get what you are trying to say here.

I am a Catholic. Joe Schmoe made fun of the Eucharist and a handfull of extremist Catholics threatened to kill Joe. Clearly these Catholics are not good Catholics since killing someone for making fun of something is wrong.

So you respond by participating in a nationwide response making fun of the Eucharist, insulting millions of other peaceful Catholics, We're not kids here, we can deal with this problem in other ways (tracking down those who made the threats, etc)
this


ffs it actually annoys me how pathetic and hypocritical these people are
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05-20-2010 , 07:52 AM
FFFFFFFFF!! DID THEY Delete the page? Islamism is victorious yet again. Self-islamisation ftw.
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05-20-2010 , 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mt.FishNoob
this


ffs it actually annoys me how pathetic and hypocritical these people are
So there's a problem with making fun of the Eucharist? And what would that be?

If people think the Eucharist is hilariously silly and state this opinion, what's the problem? Are people really that immature* that they feel horribly outraged every time someone disagrees with them? And should we all make sure not to express our opinion, just so they don't get angry and throw all the toys out of their pram?




* (Yes.)

Last edited by SixT4; 05-20-2010 at 08:06 AM.
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05-20-2010 , 08:06 AM
Mark Steyn with some interesting observations:

Quote:
I initially had mixed feelings about Everybody Draws Mohammed Day. Provocation for its own sake is one of the dreariest features of contemporary culture, but that's not what this is about. Nick Gillespie's post reminds us that the three most offensive of the "Danish cartoons" - including the one showing Mohammed as a pig - were not by any Jyllands-Posten cartoonists but were actually faked by Scandinavian imams for the purposes of stirring up outrage among Muslims.As Mr Gillespie says:

It is nothing less than amazing that holy men decrying the desecration of their religion would create such foul images, but there you have it. It is as if the pope created “Piss Christ” and then passed it off as the work of critics of Catholicism.

So, if it really is a sin to depict Mohammed, then these imams will be roasting in hell. (Unless, of course, taqqiya permits Muslims to break their own house rules for the purpose of sticking it to the infidels.)

But, that aside, the clerics' action underlines what's going on: the real provocateurs are the perpetually aggrieved and ever more aggressive Islamic bullies - emboldened by the silence of "moderate Muslims" and the pre-emptive capitulation of western media. I was among a small group of columnists in the Oval Office when President Bush, after running through selected highlights from a long list of Islamic discontents, concluded with an exasperated: "If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons." That'd make a great bumper sticker: It encapsulsates both Islam's inability to move on millennium-in millennium-out, plus the grievance-mongers' utter lack of proportion.

I'm bored with death threats. And, as far as I'm concerned, if that's your opening conversational gambit, then any obligation on my part to "cultural sensitivity" and "mutual respect" is over. The only way to stop this madness destroying our liberties is (as Ayaan Hirsi Ali puts it) to spread the risk. Everybody Draws Mohammed Day does just that. Various websites are offering prizes. I only wish we could track down those sicko Danish imams* who drew their prophet as a pig, and send them the trophy.
(*PS If I seem somewhat obsessed by this point, it's because the Government of Alberta spent three years investigating my friend Ezra Levant for publishing the (authentic) Motoons, and, despite the cost to taxpayers, assigned a halfwit apparatchik to grill him about the cartoons who didn't even know that what she called the three "worst" ones were fakes.)
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05-20-2010 , 08:22 AM
How I feel spot on Link!

Censorship is lame. I draw what I want,do not threaten me!
GGK
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05-20-2010 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by profELMO
I believe all religions should be ridiculed equally.
Aslong as equally means, as much as possible!
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05-20-2010 , 09:31 AM
IMO
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05-20-2010 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixT4
The issue here really is that just because people get insulted by something, it doesn't mean they SHOULD get insulted by something, or that someone should avoid doing said thing.

People are mocking an idea. There is no reason why someone should get offended by that. If I say religion is silly and dumb, why get offended by a difference in opinion? But some people choose to do so and then it becomes PC to try and tip-toe around them.
No offense, but I think this is ridiculous. You don't get to tell others what they should and shouldn't find insulting. The question isn't whether they should be insulted. It's whether resorting to violence is ever an appropriate response. If course, it isn't.

The other (perhaps more important) question, is freedom of speech. The right to disagree with, mock, and insult other religious, political, and philosophica viewpoints they find harmful or silly. I think the answer to this is yes as well. I'm not saying people don't have the write to insult whoever they want. I'm asking what the purpose is here. And I vehemently disagree that it's to show what should and should not be insulting!

Last edited by Lestat; 05-20-2010 at 10:32 AM.
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05-20-2010 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyme
Not everyone agrees with this. I don't, on two levels. One is the generic "moderates enable" grounds
I normally agree with the "moderates are enablers" philosophy. But only in the sense that it is moderates from ALL religions. Catholics are just as guilty in enabling these Islamic fundamentalists. There's no good reason to single out Muslim moderates here.

Quote:
and the other is on this specific area they agree with the extremists ... My free speech is to be curtailed.
I'm sure moderates would agree that these pictures are extremely offensive. But you have a lot of work in front of you in order to show that they agree with the violent fundamentalist response. I think that's a very unfair characterisation.
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