Video on a nutshell: If I broke into someones house and threatened to kill them unless they became an athiest, and they did so as a result, it is absolutely ludicrous to claim that the person arrived at that position as a result of free will.

In Christianity, the threat isn't simply death, it's worse - eternity in hell if they don't believe. And as a result many people become and stay theists in order to dodge said punishment. This is not "free will" in any sense. It's forced.

So God can cause unimaginable pain and suffering to the worlds most innocent and defenseless creatures and he is still someone you would choose to worship?

What goes contrary to his will? Are there any examples you can give?

See bolded. First, your eternity in hell is no worse to you than just plain death because you are dead at the time. Second, Christianity's "threat" of eternity in hell can't mean anything to you unless you are already a Christian, therefore it has no coercive effect on converting you.

So true. I know people who go to church only because they fear punishment in the afterlife.

Unless you are brainwashed into believing this as a child, or a person is going through something that may make him especially susceptible and gullible (depression, stress, etc.) to what other may be preaching.

God is not like that. Otherwise, the universe and I, both of which He created, would be so completely different that I can't answer your hypothetical.

Sin in general. Unrepentant sin especially.

To many people, the mere possibility that Christianity could be true/a place like hell could exist/they could be going there is a great reason why they become and stay Christians. The threat of eternal hell is extremely powerful in getting people to convert and stay, are you seriously saying you think EVERYONE converts and is only convinced of the existence of hell afterward?

A threat is a threat. You don't need to be a Christian in order to say to yourself "I don't want to go to hell for eternity." And that kind of response to a threat is a great motivating factor in getting people to join and stay in the religion.

This. is. not. free. will.

It's simply an appeal hedonism, and people oblige.

But you do have to be a Christian to believe there is a (Christian) hell and therefore feel compelled to take action to avoid going there.

It seems to me that God is exactly like that if he exists. There are a ton of innocents out there suffering and dying every day. Wouldn't he be responsible for this? A child born only to starve to death before his first birthday has no free will.

Nobody knows if a hell exists or not. That's the beauty of the threat. Since it's unfalsifiable, people automatically assign some probability that it could exist. They don't need to fully believe that it does. And Pascal's wager kind of thinking can take over from there, and suddenly, what do you know, you've got a "Christian".

Nearly all of the starvation in the modern world is due to man's corruption, not God. If we all followed God's precepts, poverty would be eliminated.

God is responsible for some suffering. If this is a problem for you, then you are free to disagree with Him. It is not a problem for me since I do not consider suffering to be an inherent evil. Do you? If so, why?

It is possible this has happened a few times. Very few, I expect.

What about the children who have this thought of eternal damnation drummed into their heads from early childhood? They are going to be especially susceptible to believing what is taught by their parents. Where is their choice?

What about the extremely vulnerable people out there? It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that when people are at their most vulnerable they "find" God. I have a friend who lost her child tragically. She "found God" because she has to find a way to cope. She has to believe she will see her child in heaven one day in order to exist right now. She is an example of the extremely vulnerable.

The same logic applies. No matter what condition you are in, a threat of hell being effective is contingent on you already believing in hell.

While I'm glad you can admit as much, I think this goes on much, much more than many theists think. Just from personal experience, the people in my life that are not atheists continue practicing their religion/their deference to "god" largely to cover their bases in the afterlife.

It's basically all a product of Pascal's wager kind of thinking, at least in my social circle. They won't necessarily ardently argue in favor of the power of prayer, or say in Jesus' divinity, but they continue to call themselves "Christians" and go to church largely because they've been taught what could happen to them later if they don't.

No it's not, and I already told you this. It is only predicated on the fact that the existence of hell hasn't been disproven. That's all they need to acknowledge in order for the threat to take it's effect and bring Pascal into the mental picture.

I got it the first time, I just don't believe what you are saying is anything more than a "cool story" origins myth. Unless you can present an evidence-based case for significant numbers of conversions on this basis, it does not ring true to me.

That is an absolutely outrageous and intellectually bankrupt statement.

On occasion, you make some pretty decent posts. This is not one of those times.

Just curious, you realize that if we all followed "God's precepts" as written in the bible, the United States, among other things, would basically be a communist society, right?

Roughly speaking, you are correct. The early church held property in common, etc.

Is lack of drinkable water, untreatable disease, and natural disasters also due to man's corruption?

I'm going to go ahead and guess that in such a society, where riches are lavished upon the poor who do not work and do not care to work, great science, medicine, water/food purification never gets done, or gets done at roughly 1000x slower speed than in a capitalist society.

Care to keep going down this rabbit hole?

Surely, right after you present an evidence-based case for the existence of god.

Here's a kind of interesting question for christians. Let's say we find out tomorrow morning that there's an extra book in the bible. Pretty much all christian leaders add it to their preaching arsenal, etc etc etc. It's accepted by everyone.

Is there anything that could be in this book that would make you consider God to be evil?

Most of the hardship that is proximately caused by those conditions is a consequence of man's corruption and would not be a significant problem otherwise.

This is not a society based on God's precepts.

OIC, we're both making faith-based claims without evidence-based arguments.