I guess you forgot about the part where he came back to life. Easy to miss i guess.

Quoted from an email i received yesterday from theberean.org

Except that's probably not what happened.

So you accept the Biblical account as a premise of discussion until you get caught. Then you change the subject. Very tricky.

Get caught? No one in this thread has even come close to stating a coherent theory that explains the doctrine of atonement.

So you should be able to explain to us what is wrong with the theories i have brought up in this thread.

OP already did.

Where has OP addressed any of my posts in this thread?

If you want to bring up his resurrection, then answer this..

How can you call a murder/death a sacrifice if the person being killed comes back to life? Humans suffer and will always suffer (and WE die). Jesus' suffering wasn't suffering at all (UNLESS he was just a man).


Suffering and sacrifice.. the two ugliest things about religion (and life)! Religion puts it in God's hand and in our hands.. I just chalk it up to life and mother nature. Which sounds more evil to you.. a bloodthirsty God or the course of life mixing with the forces of nature?

This is a tactic employed by most Christians. How dare you?

Jesus was both man and God. At least this is the trinitarian dyophysite/miaphysite view of Jesus. He being a man, accepted the human nature, thus he felt pain like any other man.

If you view Jesus just as God, then you get a problem yes, how could God suffer? But it is because he is both man and God that he is able to suffer, able to eat, able to drink, able to pray etc etc.

So Jesus is a man-God who can suffer and cannot suffer and suffered and did not suffer. Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you really want to learn, or just troll and run away?

Still think its suicide. If i know someone is coming to kill me at my house and i just sit there in a chair with my back to the door im killing mylsef as much as anything.

Are you kidding here? Just because a person came back to life, doesn't cancel out his death. He still went through all the pain, physically, and emotionally. He still lived life in a way that 99.9% of the people here on earth feel is a huge inconvenience. He still got hungry, thirsty, tired like us. He just had complete faith and confidence in our Creator, which is why Christ was able to perform the miracles he did. Not because he was a "magical" person. In all aspects he was just a normal human being like me and you.

It is not God's wish for us to suffer. He is saddened by the fact that His Creation turned to a path of suffering instead of listening to Him.

Enough with the suicide talk. You are obviously really confused or just trying to be dumb for the sake of argument. There is a difference between your scenario and what Christ went through. And the difference is, you wouldn't be saving a countless number of people from suffering for eternity. Go read about sacrifice.

When you write things like Jesus was man and God, and Gods can't suffer, but Jesus suffered, how could anyone possibly make a serious response to that? You can believe anything at all when you throw logic out the window.

How dare I what? I'm not responsible for errors that "most Christians" make. Another classic atheist fallacy.

Maybe its just a Christian fallacy that thats a atheist fallacy.

OK let me rephrase. My English is not too good, so I think that's the problem here. It lies not in the nature of God to suffer. But it lies in the nature of man to suffer. It lies not in the will of God to eat, but it lies in the will of man to eat. Let's say the God/divine nature of Jesus did allow suffering.

My point is, you can't split Christ into 2 persons. You can't say the man Jesus ate but the God Jesus didn't.

Yet you say that the man Jesus suffered and the God Jesus did not. Your English is fine, it's just logically incoherent.

It may not "cancel it out" in your opinion, but if someone dies and then comes back, I personally wouldn't consider it a death. To us mere mortals, death is forever. Nobody, not even Jesus, has ever come back to say otherwise. I, of course, do not believe in Jesus' resurrection. I barely even believe he existed at all (you know, no historical proof, etc etc etc).

Sacrifice???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

My point earlier: JESUS NOR GOD COULD EVER SACRIFICE ANYTHING OF VALUE TO THEM. If I create money, it has no value to me or to others. If you created "everything".. there's no value in what you [supposedly] sacrificed.

Ask parents who have 2 or 3 jobs what sacrifice is all about.. because I don't think you have a clue.

I wasn't being serious Concerto. If you had a sense of humor you would've read what I wrote and just laughed it off.

I say the same thing about Adam and Eve all the time. Funny

Go study the definition of death...
False.


False.

There are proofs other then a video camera.

Yes.

False.


Well yea, because you are you. If you were God or maybe a government of a country, they money you create could be worth something.

False. Lets say you create a human being, through cloning measures or w/e. Does that human being not feel pain/pleasure, love and happiness/ hate and sadness? Is it not capable of doing things of value? You must value no life at all. What a surprise.

LoL i would much rather have 2 or 3 jobs then to work every day all day for people like yourself and receive a bunch of torture as payment. Christ's job consisted of many.