Today is Pentecost in western churches celebrating the founding of the Christian Church when the Holy Spirit descended upon the apostles in the upper room in Jerusalem in 30 or 33 A.D.

Pentecost celebrates the spreading of the Good News

God saves. the Gospel is the Good News because before Jesus there was no salvation only suffering and death but now faith in Christ justified by works of mercy saves anyone who will repent and be baptized

believe in God yes!

You are severely understating the actual state-of-affairs. Every living thing on Earth perishes at some point. Including me, and including YOU!

The ultimate question is: "Where are YOU going to spend ETERNITY?"


That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

Trust in Christ today before it's too late! "Eternity is too long to be wrong!"

"... And since everything dies anyway, it's fine to slaughter and mass murder. That's my creed, my belief, my apologetics."

Yes, it's "fine" for God to slaughter anyone he chooses. The giver of life has the right to be the taker of life. (And aside from Enoch and Elijah, He has chosen to kill everyone up to this point in time.)

Having said that, I have a question for you:

By what knowable, objective, unchanging and universal standard of righteousness is it wrong for a person to slaughter people?

Looking forward to your level-headed and reasonable response.

do any of you think it's a coincidence the calendar used by the entire world counts from the day of our Lord?

7 and 12 are Holy numbers in the Bible

12 hours a.m. and p.m. twice per day

7 days per week

12 months per year

lots of superstition!

God designed the world you live in and He sets the rules

humble yourself before The LORD

repent and be baptized you still can!

Interesting. I never noticed that "coincidence" before.

Amen!

Please tell me you are kidding! The calendar using BC/AD as itÂ’s reference for dates is widely used because that is the calendar used by European nations and countries established originally as colonies of those nations (USA, Australia, Canada,etc.) These are the nations that (for better or worse) established worldwide military, commercial and cultural influence. It is natural that other countries adapted to the conventions of Europe rather than the other way around.

It could have been otherwise. While Europeans were fragmented into numerous tiny, relatively powerless feudal fiefdoms, the Chinese had trade ships plying the Pacific and Indian Oceans, reaching as far as Madagascar. It would only have been a matter of time before they rounded the Cape of Africa and found their way into the Mediterranean and possibly the east coast of the Americas. The emperor at the time though called a halt to the exploration, fearing that the Chinese people would be corrupted by contact with barbarian peoples, and consequently China became isolationist. Who knows? China might well have conquered Europe, Africa and Asia and we would have had a different calendrical convention.

As for days of the week and months of the year, again, nothing to do with God and the Bible. The seven day week dates back to the Sumerians, and the twelve month year to the Babylonian lunar calendar. The Hebrews borrowed these conventions from others who had no belief in God. The seven day week comes from astronomical superstition regarding the seven visible “planets” (ancient observers counted the sun and moon among those), and is today still reflected in the names of the days. In English, many of those names are derived from Norse gods — your argument actually supports the idea that it is the Norse pantheon that is real, not the god of the Abrahamic religions (which BTW, other than Christianity, do NOT count years from the birth of Christ).

The twelve months in a year also is not related to the Bible, but rather comes from being approximately the number of lunar cycles that comprise a full year. Almost all calendars that use lunar months have twelve months in a year, usually with an extra “leap minth” to make the lunar and solar calendars match. Again, nothing to do with God. Question for you though: why didn’t God make it EXACTLY 12 months in a year, instead of only approximately so, especially if 12 is such a “holy number” (BTW, where in the Bible is it written that 7 and 12 are “holy”?) Was he just sloppy? If He wanted everything to jive up like you claim, why not 336 days in a year? Then we would have 12 months, each with 4 weeks, 7 days per week, and we would not have to mess around with months having different lengths and having to add leap days, plus skipping those leap days in century years not divisible by 400. Seems awfully messy for something designed by an all powerful creator.

In addition the division of a day into 24 hours is a completely arbitrary cultural convention representing absolutely nothing inherent to the physical rotation of the earth. Other cultures have used different divisions; the Indians for example historically divided the day into 30 or 60 equal parts. The Chinese used 100 parts. The use of 24 divisions for the day again is a result of the rest of the world conforming to European cultural convention, and absolutely nothing to do with the actual world or any creator thereof.

And considering the above, if 12 is the holy number, why are there 24 hours in a day, not 12?

the world doesnt use any of those. the world dates the years from the birth of Jesus

12 hours a.m. and p.m. twice per day

7 days per week

12 months per year

not some obscure dead methodology you want to hire indiana jones to dig up for you in a cave

this is The LORD at work

deal with it

discern what is true

This is probably useless, but letÂ’s try one last time:

Consider the year we now refer to as 1000AD. The Arabs at that time would have called it 378. The Jews at that time would have called it 4761. The Yoruba people in Africa would have called it 9042. Certainly the Chinese, Indians, Mayans, and Incas all would have called it something different. You get the idea.

At that time, it did not really matter. None of those peoples had much (if any) contact with each other. There was no extensive trade or interaction going on. Similarly it didn’t matter that they used different calendars with different numbers of days in a week or different numbers of months in the year — there was no communication.

As technology advanced, these peoples eventually came into closer contact. The European nations were especially active in that regard. Once it became necessary to standardize calendrical conventions across the world. Obviously the European conventions were the natural choice— almost all international trade involved European countries.

The definition of a day or year has an obvious physical basis. Months do too, but you lose the 12 months per year conversion if you use it; current months are arbitrary. Weeks and hours have no physical basis.

Tl;dr version: the so-called divine features that impress you so much really are equivalent to the statement that European culture has spread and become influential globally. I am pretty sure nobody is going to argue that (although IÂ’m pretty sure we will disagree on why that is the case)

there you go again making up your own rules

the world doesnt operate on stremba's thought exercise time

it operates on calendar years dated to the birth of Jesus Christ

12 hour clocks a.m. and p.m. twice per day

7 days per week

12 months per year

because thats the way God designed it and God actively runs this joint


maybe you can try to bring back the french revolutionary calendar see if anyone uses it with you maybe you will still be around in 4,000 years

discern what is true

You keep accusing me of arrogance that I know the nature of things. I don't at all ... as any reasonable person I consider it a Great Mystery. YOU ARE THE ONE who claims arrogantly and stupidly to know all this, based on supernatural revelations. So, do you see any problem with your position, accusing me of exactly what you are doing??

If 24 hours in a day is divine law, why is there nothing in the Bible that tells us this?

your posts i read in this thread are all demonstrably against belief in God not trying to figure out some great mystery

what else do you want me to say to someone who has hundreds of posts on a subject they dont believe in

maybe i will go in a soccer or wrestling thread two things i dont watch and post hundreds of posts telling them how stupid they are for watching such a dumb sport

thats what your behavior is like


God is everything i am nothing without Him

truly arrogant position

discern what is true

God likes the number 12 so much he made 12 hours happen twice a day

discern what is true

fellaga you want to have a real conversation we can if you just want to troll youre going to get trolled back

belief in God is so superstitious and ignorant it has lasted thousands of years and has more believers today than ever before

your morality and reason are so wise and advanced your grandkids will look back at you and consider you a backwards fool

rethink your definitions about what is ignorant and superstitious you seem confused tbh

Ok, so you cannot find a Bible verse that says there are 24 hours in a day then? If I am strong, quote me the verse that says a full day contains exactly 24 hours.

You are aware, right, that the notion of hour as a constant amount of time is a relatively new one? Most societies prior to the invention of clocks defined the hour in terms of fractions of the time between sunset and sunrise. Each day would always have, by definition, exactly twelve hours of daylight and twelve hours of darkness (at least in societies influenced by Babylonian astronomical practice, which included the Hebrews, and by extension the Classical Greek and Roman civilizations, which were the predecessors of modern Western civilization). Obviously since some days have longer periods where the sun shines than other days do, the length of an hour varied over the course of a year. It also varies over the course of a day, with night hours and day hours being of different duration.

If God really decreed that a day has 24 hours, why did He not see fit to tell us so in the Bible, nor define in the Bible exactly how long an hour is? Why did he not at least specify that hours during the night and hours during the day had exactly the same duration? The societies that used relative hours, BTW, were ones that followed the Bible, including the early Christian Church.

As you would say, discern what is true. An hour truly is a human invention intended to provide a measure of time less than the full rotational period of the earth that is convenient for some purposes. Western civilization has become dominant, so its conventions have been universally adopted, including the number of hours in a day. It is not wrong to divide a day into other fractions; it just is not useful to society since the division into 24 hours is universally agreed upon.

What all this has to do with the existence or non existence of God escapes me anyway, especially since even for those who believe, God seems to be pretty much silent on the topic of how we should divide the earth’s rotational period into smaller durations. Put it this way: if God came down and proclaimed that we got it wrong and we should be using 22 hours per day, would that make you question your faith even a little bit? I would think not because it is truly irrelevant.

Many people can share the same superstitious belief. Widespread belief does not mean it is not superstitious. If there actually is no God then all religious beliefs are superstitious, regardless of the number of people who profess those beliefs. Argument ad popularum is a common logical fallacy, especially among theists.

12 hour clocks are not new they have been around for thousands of years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock

what you call superstition is more popular now than 4,000 years ago

what you call wisdom fades in a generation or two

discern what is true

The 24 hour day was standard by the time mechanical clocks weee invented. Clocks with 12 hour faces reflects that fact, not any truly physical or supernatural truth. But the Bible is older than 12 hour clocks isn’t it? Still waiting for the Bible verse that says a day has 24 hours. And increasing the number of people who believe something to be true does not make that belief any more true. Again, argument ad popularum is a fallacy.

12 hour clocks have been around for thousands of years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-hour_clock

the ancient egyptians used 12 hour sun dials and 12 hour water clocks

the romans used 12 hour clocks even though the length of their hours varied throughout the year

every time you see a 12 hour clock today it will remind you of God


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_numerology

the thing is established by God


youre applying ad popularum fallacy to something that has consistently grown in numbers over 4,000 years?

let me guess next you will say the flood couldnt have happened because scientists in the last 200 years agree

you have some weird contorted logic

you are in open rebellion against God. repent and save your soul. there is still time

10 fingers and 10 toes for counting

you still use base 10 mathematics decimal system today

amazing all the coincidences


believe in God and His intelligent design

earliest surviving record of prime number study is around 300 BC

pincer attack was supposedly invented 490 BC

but Genesis chapter 14 (written by 500s BC or earlier) describes pincer attack by Abraham's 318 men saving their brother

same as 318 bishops at the first ecumenical council of nicaea

318 = sum of all prime numbers between 7 and 7-squared

318 all added together = 12

the signs are all there you just dont want to see because you have created yourself as a god in your own image and love to do evil while rationalizing you are good


humble yourself before The LORD because He is exceedingly merciful and loves all. there is still time

Hebrews 9:27 - 3-squared and 3-cubed 927

"It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment."


one of the most important verses in the Bible

you have one life to prove yourself to God. that's it

will you be faithful and humble yourself and rely on The LORD? or will you go your own way and do evil rationalizing your selfishness as good?

following God leads to good going your own way leads to evil

dont be deceived by your culture. repent and be baptized. there is still time

Why all the cryptic numerology? If God decreed that 12 is a holy number why not just say so? And still waiting for a relevant Biblical quote, you know, one that says that a day must be divided into 24 equal parts.

Which of course begs another question: if a day is 24 hours, when was that true? The earthÂ’s rotation is slowing. If a day were exactly 24 hours at the purported creation time, then it no longer is 24 hours. Days in fact have measurably different durations even on very short time scales. That is why we use atomic standards to define time - the motion of the earth is too inconsistent to provide a precise standard. So again, at what time in history was there a 24 hour day, and more importantly, how do you know?