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Religion, God, and Theology Discussion of God, religion, faith, theology, and spirituality.

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Old Yesterday, 12:18 AM   #576
FellaGaga-52
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
There is a tension created when the understanding of God as sovereign, just, and good is put in conflict by our direct experience of unnecessary, irreconcilable suffering and evil. To avoid that existential crisis, many choose to sacrifice the truth of their direct experience and instead habitually and unconditionally reconcile through various rationalizations in order to relieve the tension. I understand why you donít find this admirable.

However, there is another common pattern of behavior often used to avoid this crisis. It is to deny the sovereignty of God while at the same time trying to salvage the ideal, the transcendent good, through frameworks such as Humanism. The result is a good which is no longer transcendent divorced from God. Itís the pattern of building sandcastles and tyrannically blinding yourself to their inadequacy.

When this second person gets exposed to himself and loses the cover of self deception, he will find himself back at the unresolved crisis point and will often scapegoat the first type of person (the habitual reconciler) in a desperate, shortsighted attempt at relieving his built up resentment as a result of his victimhood.

The reality is that God and the sustainable good are two sides of the same coin. Punting on the idea of God, or denying the sovereignty of God, is not a solution to the internal splitting of existential crisis. Just as denying our judgment and unconditionally reconciling with God is not a solution. We are to wrestle with God - an idea that those ignorant, barbaric ancestors of ours already figured out.
And why are you trying to transcend reality instead of just living in it? Where did you get that piece of wisdom? From the witch killers and the stone the non-virgins clan? It is the religious that are the greatest scapegoaters. Your existential dilemma of pain driving people away from truth is cockamamie ... it does just the opposite. That's why you won't hear me with the "If there was a god why is there suffering?" BS argument. And when I point that out as BS, I am immediately accused of being a theist. The whole epistemology of the thing is a joke. It starts with: "There is a supernatural, omniscient and perfectly moral god, but don't expect there to be validation of this, for any of the thousands of gods, because, like we started with, "He's" supernatural and therefore can never be confirmed but we just know "He's" there because we started with that when we needed some reason why there was lightning, or some stupid arsed thing. If you want to escape reality, all the gods serve that purpose.
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Old Yesterday, 12:23 AM   #577
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish View Post
Wat?
Desire the good. Realize this unfulfilled desire in each present moment. When you become aware of how difficult it is to maintain this, then the task is to identify what is preventing you from holding the unfulfilled desire. Go back and forth between desiring the good and uncovering what is denying you from doing this. Existential experiences and everything else I talk about follows from here.

If you don’t do the above, then the status quo is all you have. If the status quo is all you want, then you deny your soul.
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 AM   #578
FellaGaga-52
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Only in the eyes of someone presuming god does anyone have to deny "Him" to solve any dilemma. You don't get to just make up starting points like that. Thousands of religions have tried it. Christianity is just one of them. I asked: Is Christianity one of the religions and if it is, what does that imply about it? Apologists sensed danger and said, "No, it isn't a religion." That's pretty hardcore denialism in the service of indoctrination, if you ask me.
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Old Yesterday, 12:39 AM   #579
craig1120
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
Only in the eyes of someone presuming god does anyone have to deny "Him" to solve any dilemma. You don't get to just make up starting points like that. Thousands of religions have tried it. Christianity is just one of them. I asked: Is Christianity one of the religions and if it is, what does that imply about it? Apologists sensed danger and said, "No, it isn't a religion." That's pretty hardcore denialism in the service of indoctrination, if you ask me.
A model of reality cannot be reality. Since truth is associated with reality, then the model of reality known as Christianity cannot be true. The Christianity that I reference is not a model of reality but rather that which deconstructs and transcends models of reality.
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Old Yesterday, 12:51 AM   #580
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by craig1120 View Post
Desire the good. Realize this unfulfilled desire in each present moment. When you become aware of how difficult it is to maintain this, then the task is to identify what is preventing you from holding the unfulfilled desire.
Probably short attention span.

Let me ask my previous question in this way, instead: why do you presume an existential crisis exists?
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Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM   #581
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Yes I do
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 PM   #582
FellaGaga-52
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by BeaucoupFish View Post
Probably short attention span.

Let me ask my previous question in this way, instead: why do you presume an existential crisis exists?
Because he's spouting sophistry imagining he's Plato. You rarely see just normal speak out of his mouth ... but he's in love with abstract sophistry pronouncements that fulfill and indulge his vision of himself as The Answer to the human plight. That's really the only thing I can figure. Either he is that -- The Answer -- or he's indulging a deluded self-image that he is ... and I dam sure know which of those is more likely.
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Old Today, 05:04 AM   #583
Bladesman87
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
Because he's spouting sophistry imagining he's Plato. You rarely see just normal speak out of his mouth ... but he's in love with abstract sophistry pronouncements that fulfill and indulge his vision of himself as The Answer to the human plight. That's really the only thing I can figure. Either he is that -- The Answer -- or he's indulging a deluded self-image that he is ... and I dam sure know which of those is more likely.
Once you let go of the false paradigm of singular identities and acknowledge that we are all one universe coming to consciousness and rejoicing in the ability to recognise itself you will understand that sophistry is really the world marred by self-deception. But then is it not true that we are changed by dishonesty? Is the universe then not altered by our thoughts? What then, do we say if our sophistry becomes truth? It is we, who are not we but one, who's perception determines reality. Sophistry is merely another truism.

It is kind of fun.
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Old Today, 03:04 PM   #584
W0X0F
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
And why are you trying to transcend reality instead of just living in it? Where did you get that piece of wisdom? From the witch killers and the stone the non-virgins clan? It is the religious that are the greatest scapegoaters. Your existential dilemma of pain driving people away from truth is cockamamie ... it does just the opposite. That's why you won't hear me with the "If there was a god why is there suffering?" BS argument. And when I point that out as BS, I am immediately accused of being a theist. The whole epistemology of the thing is a joke. It starts with: "There is a supernatural, omniscient and perfectly moral god, but don't expect there to be validation of this, for any of the thousands of gods, because, like we started with, "He's" supernatural and therefore can never be confirmed but we just know "He's" there because we started with that when we needed some reason why there was lightning, or some stupid arsed thing. If you want to escape reality, all the gods serve that purpose.
Reminded me of a line (at 8:32) from Tim Minchin's song "Thank you God":

**** me, Sam, what are the odds
That in history's endless parade of gods
that the god you just happen to be taught to believe in
is the actual one, and he digs on healing?





(The song begins at 5:27)
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