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Old Yesterday, 12:04 AM   #426
lagtight
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
Yahweh killed every child and baby on earth.
Was that a bad thing? If so, why?
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Old Yesterday, 12:07 AM   #427
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52 View Post
In so doing, the killing of countless women, Yahweh also killed untold fetuses in utero. Is that a problem? Kind of. Don't use this character as an objection to abortion.

The religion has to be apocryphal. Check.
Is it bad to "kill countless women"? If so, why?
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 AM   #428
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Why You Can Trust the Bible: Page 4 of 4

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Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
As Beaucoup Fish says, this is just an enormous amount of gish gallop, But this in particular is absolutely ridiculous. Please give some examples of scientific insights in the bible.
There are many scientific truths found in the Bible that we have no historical record of being discovered by scientists for many hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years after these truths were recorded in the Bible.

(These examples are from the book The Bible: Is It Reliable by June Hunt.)

A. Geophysics: The earth is round - a sphere.

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…” (Isaiah 40:22)

B. Planetology: The earth is suspended from space.

“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)

C. Astronomy: The number of stars cannot be counted (from a practical point of view).

“That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore…” (Genesis 22:17)

D. Earth Science: Mountains and canyons exist in the sea.

“I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever…” (Jonah 2:6)

E. Oceanography:

1. Water paths/ocean currents exist in the sea.

“The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.” (Psalm 8:8)
.
2. Springs and fountains exist in the sea.

“When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep.” (Proverbs 8:28)

F. Hydrology: Precipitation and evaporation cycles exist.

“He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them...For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapor thereof; which the clouds do drop and distill upon man abundantly...Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; to cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; to satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth” (Job 26:8; 36:27-28;38:25-27)

G. Genetics: All living things reproduce after their own kind.

“And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind…” (Genesis 1:21)

H. Hematology: Life is in the blood.

“For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is in the blood thereof…” (Leviticus 17:14)

I.. Urology: Circumcision is to be performed on the eighth day.

“And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations…” (Genesis 17:12)

J. Epidemiology: Public sanitation is essential.

“Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad: And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee.” (Deuteronomy 23:12-13)

K. Public Health: Policies are needed

1. Never eat animals that died of natural causes. (Lev. 7:24)

2. To destroy contaminated objects. (Lev. 11:13; 15:12)

3. To isolate or quarantine those who are sick. (Lev. 13:4)

4. To burn used dressings, contaminated clothing. (Lev 13:47-54)

5. To rid the house of any mold. (Lev 14:34-47)

6. To wash clothes and bathe after touching someone with an infection or touching the bed of someone with an infection. (Lev 15:11)

Last edited by lagtight; Yesterday at 12:35 AM. Reason: punctuation
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM   #429
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Some friends decide to go to the vanilla and chocolate ice cream shop. On their way they're stopped by the local constable, who tells them, "Don't eat the chocolate ice cream. If you do, someday, I'll come along and shoot you in the face!"

Some of the friends are scared and say "Okay, vanilla it is then!" Others say, "F*** you Jesus! I'll eat chocolate ice cream if I want!" And others respond, "What a nut! He expects us to believe that he'll really kill us just for having some chocolate ice cream? Buzz off."

Aristotle, who was sitting nearby, waves the scoffers over and says, "Look, Jesus is an excitable guy and maybe you can ignore his threats, but you really should avoid the chocolate ice cream and stick to vanilla here. Their chocolate ice cream has been prepared from spoiled ingredients and will probably make you sick. I've been watching and half the people who've had it leave throwing up afterwards."

Some of the scoffers are concerned, "Okay, I guess I'll stick to vanilla then." The rest respond, "Whatever, I really want chocolate ice cream, I'll take my chances," or "Do you really know that the chocolate ice cream is why they got sick? Were you making sure that it was only people who had chocolate ice cream who got sick, or that they weren't already sick when they came in?"

Jesus is a little miffed and says, "Hey guys, why are you listening to Aristotle? Check out what that guy over says about him."

At this Darwin stops eating and says, "Look guys, I've studied all this. Your preference for chocolate or vanilla is the result of psychological drives you have as the result of random mutations or historical happenstance that made your ancestors more likely to have surviving descendants. Given that, do you think it really matters whether you actually have chocolate or vanilla?"

Jesus snickers and mutters, "Well, I'll make sure it matters..." but is interrupted by a passing man carrying a sign:

"Ah-ha! You should ignore these fools, Aristotle and Jesus. They pretend that they want to help you, but really they are just trying to keep all the chocolate ice cream for themselves! Do what you want! Throwing up is not so bad anyway."

Jesus laughs and says, "Yeah, yeah, we've already heard it Friedrich. Go find some more horses to save."

Aristotle then turns to Darwin and says, "Wait a minute though, I don't care why these partiers want chocolate or vanilla, or where that preference comes from. I'm just pointing out that if they eat chocolate then they'll probably get sick. No one except sickos want to get sick. Anyway, how is this any different than ignoring Jesus' threat to shoot them in the face? Maybe they want to be shot in the face as well? My point is that they'll be worse off if they eat the chocolate ice cream, even if they really want to."

Jesus interjects and tapping his badge says, "I'm not saying they shouldn't eat chocolate because I'll shoot them in the face if they do (although I will!), but just because, look at my badge, I'm the law, they should just do what I say because I say so."

Aristotle smiles, "Well, you do claim to be the law...but even so, why should someone follow the law? Are you saying that if you shot them in the face if they eat vanilla ice cream and let them go if they ate chocolate that they should still eat vanilla because you tell them to? I think most people would prefer a little barfing to another hole in the head. Ultimately you're making these threats and telling people to not eat chocolate because you want to stop people from getting sick from the spoiled ice cream. If chocolate ice cream didn't make people sick, then you're just being a tyrant, telling people what kind of food they have to eat for no good reason. Are you a tyrant?"

At this Darwin leans over and points out that everyone has already gone into the ice cream shop and so they should shut up and let him eat in peace.
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Old Yesterday, 02:20 PM   #430
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by lagtight View Post
One way to stop children from being raped is to encourage people to read their Bible's and obey its teachings. Rape is evil from a Biblical perspective. (Not so much from an Evolutionary perspective.)
And yet god does nothing to stop it. What a prick.
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Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM   #431
craig1120
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Some friends decide to go to the vanilla and chocolate ice cream shop. On their way they're stopped by the local constable, who tells them, "Don't eat the chocolate ice cream. If you do, someday, I'll come along and shoot you in the face!"

Some of the friends are scared and say "Okay, vanilla it is then!" Others say, "F*** you Jesus! I'll eat chocolate ice cream if I want!" And others respond, "What a nut! He expects us to believe that he'll really kill us just for having some chocolate ice cream? Buzz off."

Aristotle, who was sitting nearby, waves the scoffers over and says, "Look, Jesus is an excitable guy and maybe you can ignore his threats, but you really should avoid the chocolate ice cream and stick to vanilla here. Their chocolate ice cream has been prepared from spoiled ingredients and will probably make you sick. I've been watching and half the people who've had it leave throwing up afterwards."

Some of the scoffers are concerned, "Okay, I guess I'll stick to vanilla then." The rest respond, "Whatever, I really want chocolate ice cream, I'll take my chances," or "Do you really know that the chocolate ice cream is why they got sick? Were you making sure that it was only people who had chocolate ice cream who got sick, or that they weren't already sick when they came in?"

Jesus is a little miffed and says, "Hey guys, why are you listening to Aristotle? Check out what that guy over says about him."

At this Darwin stops eating and says, "Look guys, I've studied all this. Your preference for chocolate or vanilla is the result of psychological drives you have as the result of random mutations or historical happenstance that made your ancestors more likely to have surviving descendants. Given that, do you think it really matters whether you actually have chocolate or vanilla?"

Jesus snickers and mutters, "Well, I'll make sure it matters..." but is interrupted by a passing man carrying a sign:

"Ah-ha! You should ignore these fools, Aristotle and Jesus. They pretend that they want to help you, but really they are just trying to keep all the chocolate ice cream for themselves! Do what you want! Throwing up is not so bad anyway."

Jesus laughs and says, "Yeah, yeah, we've already heard it Friedrich. Go find some more horses to save."

Aristotle then turns to Darwin and says, "Wait a minute though, I don't care why these partiers want chocolate or vanilla, or where that preference comes from. I'm just pointing out that if they eat chocolate then they'll probably get sick. No one except sickos want to get sick. Anyway, how is this any different than ignoring Jesus' threat to shoot them in the face? Maybe they want to be shot in the face as well? My point is that they'll be worse off if they eat the chocolate ice cream, even if they really want to."

Jesus interjects and tapping his badge says, "I'm not saying they shouldn't eat chocolate because I'll shoot them in the face if they do (although I will!), but just because, look at my badge, I'm the law, they should just do what I say because I say so."

Aristotle smiles, "Well, you do claim to be the law...but even so, why should someone follow the law? Are you saying that if you shot them in the face if they eat vanilla ice cream and let them go if they ate chocolate that they should still eat vanilla because you tell them to? I think most people would prefer a little barfing to another hole in the head. Ultimately you're making these threats and telling people to not eat chocolate because you want to stop people from getting sick from the spoiled ice cream. If chocolate ice cream didn't make people sick, then you're just being a tyrant, telling people what kind of food they have to eat for no good reason. Are you a tyrant?"

At this Darwin leans over and points out that everyone has already gone into the ice cream shop and so they should shut up and let him eat in peace.
Since Jesus sees the big picture, he knows the stakes are much higher than simply getting sick from chocolate ice cream. He wants the friends to develop the sustained level of conscious awareness that allows for sovereignty from their impulses.

Later, he will raise the bar even higher by proclaiming that even thinking about eating chocolate ice cream is unacceptable. He will say this fully knowing that the friends will fail. He is purposely setting up these failure points so that they will feel shamed when they inevitably fail. This will alienate them from the status quo so that they might seek out the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Old Yesterday, 05:47 PM   #432
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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And yet god does nothing to stop it. What a prick.
The hero takes responsibility for the evil in the world. His response to his frustration over the lack of accountability from God is to incrementally place more accountability on his own shoulders.
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Old Yesterday, 07:18 PM   #433
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Originally Posted by Original Position View Post
Aristotle then turns to Darwin and says, "Wait a minute though, I don't care why these partiers want chocolate or vanilla, or where that preference comes from. I'm just pointing out that if they eat chocolate then they'll probably get sick.
"WhAt's AbSolUtely and ObjeCtiVelY and UnivErsAlLy wrOng wiTh geTtiNg siCk frOm sPOilEd fOOd iN yOur wOrLDviEw?" - someone that can't or won't defend their position (probably).
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Old Yesterday, 11:40 PM   #434
FellaGaga-52
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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Is it bad to "kill countless women"? If so, why?
So the question on the table is: Is it bad or wrong to kill all or nearly all the women, children, babies and in utero fetuses on earth, and if so why?

How strange that we pose this question so deviously, hoping to circle back to the idea that, "If the god that I choose to believe in did it, then its good by definition. And if there isn't the god that I believe in, then what difference does mass murder make anyway?" Even stranger we are going to appeal to the "ultimate morality" of the mass killer to prove that it's right. Imagine doing this for Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler.

Somebody killed millions of people including EVERY FETUS ON EARTH at one point. It's Jesus. So, we go to the killer and ask him if this is moral. Then we believe the answer offered. That okay with you? Is your moral agency, your sense of decency and right and wrong, so surrendered as to function this way?

The entire standard and epistemology of this system of religion is make-believe. It eschews all decency, ethics and responsibility to perpetrate what is in fact just one of the thousands of religious belief systems (and nothing more). Yahweh, why did you kill every fetus on earth? "Well, I'm love you know. And I'm perfectly moral so you say. So obviously, killing every fetus on earth then using me to argue against abortion is all perfectly moral, not to mention rational. And besides if it wasn't for me there would be no right and wrong, no morality. Only supernatural beings like me can decide what is right or wrong. Capisce?"

Last edited by FellaGaga-52; Yesterday at 11:48 PM.
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Old Today, 08:02 AM   #435
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Re: Do you believe in God?

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And yet god does nothing to stop it. What a prick.
If God controlled what you do, you would be be yelling at Him for that too.
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