None.

The first one is either a psychopath who should not have kids anyway or does not exist because no one brushes off a miscarriage as "well, it happens".

The second is an idiot because he thinks god exists.


Nah, the stories in the bible are all invented and have no value at all.

Both are agnostic. As mentioned.

Basil the Great introduction to his commentaries 379 A.D.

When you blame god you can't be agnostic. Try to use at least a bit of logic, please.

I said he imagines imposing justice on God. He would still identify as agnostic when asked.

When you blame god you can't be agnostic. Adding weasel words makes this whole exchange even more frustrating..I think we two are done at this point. Good luck.

Frustration in this case is progress. It gets you closer to reality.

What is the solution to the snake biting at your heels? It’s not to disengage and deny since the snake is associated with truth and reality.

"... And not only do I have a huge spiel of doctrine that I am lost in and have sacrificed reality to, I can twist my mind into a pretzel to the point where analogy justifies and sanctifies the greatest mass indiscriminate killing in history. My faith in the rantings of superstitious barbarians does this for me. Gets me to heaven, yo."

I am becoming convinced that there is nothing a human being won't do if you just wrap it in "god rap." Tonight I saw a true crime documentary where a two-timing religious man convinced a previously totally harmless woman, the mistress, of killing his wife, just by saying, repeatedly, that god had made her for exactly this task and it was a very holy thing. As she became indoctrinated into the kook-fukk religio babble, she did exactly what it dictated: killed the one "that god wanted dead." Then spent 30 years or so in prison, where, to her credit, she did realize that it was insane god rap that had captured her mind.

This kind of thing isn't some kind of rare exception, it's the rule. There are just untold amounts of crimes and appalling behavior among the cult indoctrinated. Every religion, large and small, main stream and ultra fringe, counts on it. And everyone who capitulates to it, who sacrifices their moral agency, critical thinking, and simple reality testing to such doctrines has stumbled into profound immorality, most always accidentally ... all the while imagining it is the true moral path.

It’s fascinating how you repeatedly insist that the stories are historical events. You are the fundamentalist that you keep wanting to attack. It doesn’t matter what gets posted here. You will inevitably interpret it in a way that allows you to keep projecting your internal conflict. Twisted indeed.

Every time I watch a documentary on a religious cult that professes "peace, love, prayer, etc", I await the moment when the cult leader decides that god instructed him to have sex with everyone.

I'm rarely disappointed.
Apparently god is a really twisted & horny guy! ;-)

I've said over and over that it's apocryphal, but within the belief system it is historical ... and appalling. If non-fundamentalist means the Bible is full of fable and myth, then, as I've said, it can be a sensible religion that does not sacrifice morality in the service of its doctrine.

Mulitiple Choice:

[ ] It's moral to kill millions of children, infants and fetuses.

[ ] It's immoral to kill millions of children, infants and fetuses.

To answer this, a true believer needs to check with anonymous scribes from centuries ago and what their chosen god says. The rest ... not so much.

Since we've reached the point where even near fundamentalists are disavowing the doctrine and stories as non-historic, it's important to recognize what this means. The stories are made up, are deeply flawed while also containing wisdom and goodness ... and morality consists, not of believing them ... but of being an agent, rejecting the superstitious part, rejecting the inhuman parts, applying a human code of critical thinking, decency, humanity to the dilemma. Morality isn't gifted to us by omniscience any more than mathematics or anything else is.

You will ALWAYS get some silly special pleading in the form of "god is god therefore he is allowed to do things we would call atrocious in any other case"

hi all, I just thought I would share an interesting experience last night on Discord (which I just DM'ed a 2p2 mod the full story) but the tl;dr is that a guy on discord asked for proof of God and so I intended on sending him a couple dozen links to imgur or to archive.ph and after the first link I sent him, it freaked him out so bad that he instantly assumed that this was an "advanced social engineering trick" so I could steal his discord account and that the link I gave him to archive.is was a virus.

Here is the discord server: "christian" (without quotes) and the discord mod who wanted proof of God's existence name started with the letter "C" and yes I got banned by him because it was easier to believe I'm a hacker than earth's only living prophet that can engage in meaningful, 2-way communication with God.

I also tried proving to the largest Mormon discord server and they allowed me to share more than 1 just piece of evidence that I'm the only living person on earth who can engage in meaningful, 2-way communication with God and they freaked out and banned me also. Mormons are much nicer so at least they didn't call me a troll, they just (implied) that I was mentally ill but didn't outright say it:
Keyword "that we recognize" (i.e. I am a prophet but just an unrecognized one, according to them)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyFdKvTxaZg [mic drop]

(from the official 2p2 discord server about 2 or 3 hours ago)

(approximately) (less than 4 minutes long)

Yes of course. Which is why I hammer on the particularly insane killing of millions of fetuses/infants/children ... as in, "You are okay with this slaughter, right? It's holy and loving to you, right? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DECIDES SUCH SLAUGHTER IS MORAL OR IMMORAL! Not some figment of a god, not some anonymous writer thousands of years ago. IT IS THE DEFAULT YOU MAKE OF REFUSING TO BE AN AGENT AND CEDING IT TO MYTHOLOGICAL SOURCES THAT IS THE EVIL."

They've just never imagined that such a thing is the case, and is as accurate as 2+2=4. So I persist. It takes dynamite to get through the colossal indoctrination they are blinded by, which amounts to this: "It says in an ancient book that slaughtering every infant, child and fetus on earth is the good, and, therefore, slaughtering every infant/child/fetus on earth is the good." They don't get the profound default in the realm of thinking, fairness, humanity that this entails, which they employ under the guise of special pleading for a god belief.

You forgot "false". You are a false prophet. Which means you will burn in hell for all eternity.

And then, by becoming a moral agent instead of sacrificing this sacred duty to myth and superstition, we become capable of saying things like:

1. If a god, or anyone, willfully killed every baby and fetus on earth, it's evil.
2. If a god smited a city over carnal homosexual lust, that's bigoted evil.
3. If a god commanded stoning of witches, unfaithful women, unruly children, that's evil.
4. If a god commanded genocide of a neighboring rival people of his chosen people (just lol at wanting to kill your neighbors, making up a god who commands it and makes it holy because, WE ARE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE) ... that is evil.
5. If a god commanded the sacrifice of a son by the father, and then called it off at the last second, that's slightly traumatic to both son and father ... and such commands are immoral.

Etc. We are now thinking moral agents. And, isn't it interesting how much alike this not becoming an agent is an example of "When you do nothing in the face of wrong, you are part of the problem." But now we consider all these tales apocryphal, fables, moral lessons, etc. With that realization, we surely keep a keen eye out for why moral tales would include the mass killing of people. There is something wrong in the heart of the primitive doctrine for such to be the case.

And that's 2+2=4 of the religious morality trap. It is in fact highly immoral to sacrifice agency in the name of superstition and myth. It's blind obedience, which is always immoral and leads horrendous places, but is required by religion. They make up that god is omniscient, so now their obedience transforms from vice to a virtue. A dangerous, devious, irrational capturing of minds.

I respect your opinion so I will google for the bible verse which (essentially) states that if a true prophet makes 1 false prophecy, that they are branded a "false prophet" forever. Here is the link so that I spared you the trouble from searching google for it: https://www.openbible.info/topics/false_prophets

Actually God spoke to me right now and wants you to watch this 7 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwya_f3OtOo If I am a false prophet, then please pray that prayer (in the youtube video) and God will tell you that I am a false prophet. Then feel free to post on 2p2 that God told you that through prayer and I will accept your words as the truth. (Psalms 8:8) (2 Corinthians 13:8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. ⚔️)

Where in the bible does it say God isn't evil? (I know for a fact otherwise) (by human standards)

TL;DR: God is far more evil than whatever bible verse you are capriciously inventing to stir up pro-atheism sentiment.

Clarify the question.

Just reflect that all of the religions have captured minds. Be it billions, be it millions, be it tens of thousands, be it a few hundred ... it didn't matter if it was true to gain following, adherence, zealotry. That's what it does. And of course, the more seductive, manipulative, and devious it is, the more successful it is at capturing minds. In this very real sense the most successful religion is the most immoral. It's a subversion of consciousness via theology. That's proven. No matter what you make up you get adherents, true believers, zealots. The Taliban. Jonestown.

The theocratic movement in the USA is the exact same thing as the Taliban. The religion is different; the movement the same. Until believers say, "Yes, it is my religion too that is guilty," you've just got battling special pleading BS. This is supported by bigotry and willful blindness. It couldn't be more stark. They made up and believed in supernatural gods when they believed in ghosts, witches and magic.

Nobody actually thinks this is valid. They believe it but they don't think it. That's the trick. The religion expressly admits this and is designed around it. Subversion of consciousness via theology.

I'm an idiot and I dm'ed you before I saw your question here in this thread. I will wait for you to read the DM and then I will clarify the question (in 20 minutes).