Hello pot, meet kettle.

I know its hard to believe but there are old atheists.

Interesting how many people ITT questioned faith early in their childhood, here i am thinking i was unique!

Will Muslims(or other religion of choice) also wake up one day and realize they were always Christians too?

Funny how sometimes children can look to the heart of the matter right away, where adults have so much trouble.

No one really says it better than Hitchens. Go to the 3 minute mark. His answer is perfect. (The whole video is great, but that answer is awesome).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w

Doggggg, I would suggest that this here is the very reason why you are religious. Because you cant bear the thought that there is nothing, and there is no way. Its not because it was predestined, or because its rings true with you in a way that nothing else does. Its because it protects you from having to look at reality, and see that in fact, there is no way, that life is empty of meaning, and that everything is subjective.

neeeeel, there is nothing, there is no way and life is empty of meaning. These conclusions protect you from having to look at reality because you can't bear the thought that there is Something.

I would suggest that you not misquote me, and you might better understand what I am trying to say.

What is ironic is that almost every "atheist" who posted their testimony in this thread is really a Christian. You don't just lose your salvation because you confess atheism or cup your eyes with your hands for a few years. I did it for close to 20!

What I noticed in this thread was that most of the reasons and justifications given for abandoning Christianity had absolutely nothing to do with what it really means to be a Christian.

I'm not going to go through them one by one, but almost every testimony here demonstrates clearly that the person just did not want to believe any more, and sought to consciously snuff out his fire of faith. One spoke of watching hundreds of hours of evolutionist video. If I wanted to purposefully brainwash myself, that is exactly how I would do it too. It's how the communists used to do it...

Nah, I like to blaspheme on the weekends, and that's unforgivable.

Hello no true Scotsman!

Wait, you don't think evolution best explains the diversity of life?

oh sweet! so i can piss on god and still go to heaven? good to know.

please enlighten us on what it really means to be a christian. i'll bet a nickel that your answer is unique just like any christian i could ask. pretty interesting that such an important and profound truth has such an incoherent message.

I watched an episode of "The Big Questions" where a bunch of Christians were discussing was it necessary to believe in God to be a Christian. Some were yes, some were no (including a priest).

Ah, found it.

This part may very well be true

ermmm what?

Really, I thought my whole post was about what it really means to be a Christian.

But maybe when I get home later I will expound on this.

You didn't answer his question. He's questioning the fact that there are a number of ways by which people label themselves Christian. Every Christian seems to have his own criteria, so why should your criteria be given special treatment? I'm guessing you're going to respond with you're criteria goes by what it says in the Bible, but here's the thing, everyone says that! Everyone's interpretation is different, sometimes wildly different. When, as in the above video, some Christians believe that it's not necessary to even believe in God anymore, it becomes obvious that whatever tenets you wish to espouse are purely subjective. In light of this, we must simply take Christians at their word. If they say they're a Christian, then well, they're a Christian.

Listen, the major error in thinking I see here is like this...

IF it rains on Tuesday THEN Jesus never existed.

I can't make the connections between the age of the earth and Jesus having been risen or not.

The fundamentalist movement certainly has to shoulder a lot of blame for these false associations. As if the message of Christ wasn't loving your neighbor as yourself and praying for those who persecute you and loving God above all. It's displayed here as if the message of Christ really is "evolution is not true" and "the earth is 5,000 years old."

If that is what being a Christian means to you, then you really have a faulty and erroneous understanding of the gospel.

A lot of philosophers have extolled the virtues of loving your neighbor. Likewise, if you're only argument was that Jesus was a great philosopher, then fine, almost no one will argue with statement. And if you want to say that to be Christian you must follow the philosophical teachings of Christ, then fine. It's when the God claims (or miracles) are mentioned that we are up in arms.

I know many Christians have to believe this so the blame falls in the right direction. But want had nothing to do with it for me.

So, someone who doesn't believe in God or the divinity of Jesus, is still a Christian? Interesting. I'm not sure many pastors or priests would agree with that statement. To which denomination do you belong?

Should I assume you're not talking about mine? I was the happiest person in the world when I was Christian, and was depressed immediately after losing my faith. For a while I kept trying to find ways to believe and questioning my new philosophies, but however my philosophy changed, it didn't change back in the direction of Christian theology. I can't pretend to believe something I don't.

If anyone could convert me back to Christianity, I'd ship them my entire BR and become a monk. The problem is, no Christian I've talked to has ever given me an argument I haven't already thought of (by the age of 12). It's the other way around-- I say things that THEY haven't thought of before.

What's not to like about the idea of going to Heaven for eternal bliss? Who wouldn't WANT to believe a perfect fairy tale such as that one?

Unfortunately, things won't be true just because we WANT them to be true. I WANT Santa Claus to exist, but he doesn't. I WANT world peace, but instead the world is full of war.

So we have to believe things that are likely to actually be true, not things that we want to believe. We have to be OBJECTIVE in the search for truth.

the fundamentalists are the only ones who are actually right if the bible is true. the fundamentalists have actually read the bible and they believe what's in it. evolution may not be a problem for you but have you ever heard of the creation museum? (fun fact, if you google "evolution museum," the creation museum is the #1 google result )

there are literally millions of people out there who think if you throw out one verse of the bible, you might as well throw the whole thing out. how do you explain the incoherence of the message of christianity?

moderate christians blame the fundamentalists for religion's problems instead of blaming the source material they are reading, because they endorse that very same source material.

there are a lot more than 10 commandments in the bible. but you don't believe them all. one could legitimately argue that you aren't even a real christian so i don't think you can claim that everyone is a christian whether they want to be or not.

He was not a great philosopher at all. Also was sort of an *******.

I was being charitable.

Part II of my "journey" is summarized in a prior post on another subject.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=132

After being excused from school morning prayer, I tried to get other students to walk out in protest but they were all afraid that their parents and God would be angry.
I then tried to get the seven excluded students to refuse to leave the class. They too were horrified.

My school guidance consellor told me that it was a natural part of growing up to want to rebel against your parents and authority.
I told her that my parents taught me to never be afraid to do the right thing so I was following one of the 10 commandments not rebelling against my parents.

The final step in my segue away from religion had nothing to do with logic. I was 16 and dating a new girl. She said, "Before we get serious, I'm an atheist. Does that bother you?" I said, "I'd be bothered if you were religious and wouldn't let me touch you."
She did.

Quite frankly, this all sounds like bad fiction.

I call BS.