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Decline of religion in the USA? Decline of religion in the USA?

10-11-2009 , 02:31 PM
I ran across the GSS ( General Social Survey) data while trying to sort through the "stupid theist" thread.
Reporting "None" as a religious preference ( although I haven't seen the actual question ).
1972 - 5.1% 1990 - 7.7% 2006 - 15.9%

Do you think it is an actual change ( mind you, it is almost 2 generations) or did a higher number give the family answer or something in years past and now people are more likely to say "none" and worry less about it?
Or ... ??
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10-11-2009 , 02:42 PM
As the social stigma slowly disappears it's natural that the first to answer "none" is the type of people who previously just paid lip service to avoid social discomfort.

Next ones to follows are the one who really has no tie to their religion and could just as well be deists/agnostics/atheists. You have plenty of those where I come from...people who don't really think about religion at all and if asked they'll just answer "don't know" or "none" because they truly and honestly don't care.

Then ofcourse you have the popularization of atheist culture. I see this a lot on this board (and the internet in general) and it's pretty fascinating. There really is little "atheist" culture where I come from and I have to say that I question its existence. It's fine to question religion and its role, and frankly it is often needed - but I would rather it is done from political, legal, philosophical, ethical and academic considerations rather than because of some atheist sub-culture phenomena.
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10-11-2009 , 02:55 PM
tame where are you from? I haven't really seen anything of the sort; then again I am originally from biblebelt, USA.

along with the reasons tame mentioned though, people are getting smarter.
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10-11-2009 , 03:01 PM
Norway. I should probably explain that we do indeed have a religious culture, but it's not really mainstream - atleast it doesn't feel that way to me. I have several friends who don't really know "what" they are because they don't really think about it and I don't think that this is uncommon here.
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10-11-2009 , 03:03 PM
People could just be confused. There are a lot more religious influences and controversies than were around 40 or 80 years ago.

There's the New Age Movement, there's the abortion and gay rights controversies, the evolution controversy, there's all the self-help Dr. Phil types littering the airwaves and all the bookstores, there's the liberalization of the universities, there is the 9/11 scare and there's the "entitlement mentality" which when not satisfied leads to de-conversion in certain people.

Probably other phenomena as well.
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10-11-2009 , 03:04 PM
I think the main driving forces behind those numbers are science/technology and education.
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10-11-2009 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
I think the main driving forces behind those numbers are science/technology and education.
I really doubt this. Your average American is not smarter and more cosmopolitan than he once was. In fact he's more culturally barbaric than he ever has been.

I believe the real reasons can be attributed to materialism and other things that distract from spirituality in general.

Your average American isn't atheist or agnostic in the most genuine of form. Your average American is affiliated with some religion, believes in 'God', but spirituality and religion are just not in his conciousness.

The claim that Americans are more educated is true, but irrelvant when it comes to believing in religion. Your average American is very specifically technically trained and educated. For instance, one who majors in business or electrical engineering is not going to be more educated when it comes to the existence of God or the validity of religion in general.

If you give an ape an I phone, a TV, and a stupid reality show, things of the afterlife are not in his calling range
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10-11-2009 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
I think the main driving forces behind those numbers are science/technology and education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
I really doubt this. .................
........................The claim that Americans are more educated is true, but irrelvant when it comes to believing in religion. Your average American is very specifically technically trained and educated. For instance, one who majors in business or electrical engineering is not going to be more educated when it comes to the existence of God or the validity of religion in general.
yep. I think you shot him down.
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10-11-2009 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyme
yep. I think you shot him down.
Maybe you should read my entire post and understand what I'm saying instead of picking out two words that match Eddi's post. This is rather childish.

Eddi meant more educated in the sense they have a broader understanding about cosmology, history, and biology. I conceded that we are more educated, but in technical areas that are completely irrelevant to validating religion (i.e. business, computers, engineering, which are the majority of what Americans go to college for and the focus of high school students)

When Eddi said more technology, I believe he was talking about our technology that allows us to study our universe better; technologies that can provide explanations for what people once called 'God'. I was talking about technologies such as TV and I Phones, technologies as a form of distraction.
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10-11-2009 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
Maybe you should read my entire post and understand what I'm saying instead of picking out two words that match Eddi's post. This is rather childish.

Eddi meant more educated in the sense they have a broader understanding about cosmology, history, and biology. I conceded that we are more educated, but in technical areas that are completely irrelevant to validating religion (i.e. business, computers, engineering, which are the majority of what Americans go to college for and the focus of high school students)

When Eddi said more technology, I believe he was talking about our technology that allows us to study our universe better; technologies that can provide explanations for what people once called 'God'. I was talking about technologies such as TV and I Phones, technologies as a form of distraction.
assuming someone doesn't go to a religion-oriented school, as far as i know, science classes are a requirement both in high school and college, regardless of their focus/major. what people are learning in science classes these days vs 30 years ago is quite different, and to think that it doesn't contribute to more people realizing the absurdity of certain religious claims is ignorant at best.
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10-11-2009 , 03:48 PM
I did not specialize technologies and I think information technologies (internet, computers, iphones, etc.) are a huge contributor.
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10-11-2009 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zugzwang83
assuming someone doesn't go to a religion-oriented school, as far as i know, science classes are a requirement both in high school and college, regardless of their focus/major. what people are learning in science classes these days vs 30 years ago is quite different, and to think that it doesn't contribute to more people realizing the absurdity of certain religious claims is ignorant at best.
I never said it wasn't a contribution to the fall of religion in the US. It surely doesn't provide any combating forces, but it is not the most potent reason.

You think because high school and collegiate freshmen take a biology class that teaches evolution their going to become less religious? I really doubt this.

Go ask the average American their knowlege of biology, cosmology, physics, etc. and see how deep it runs. See how much they remember from college and see if it was the cause for them abandoning religion.
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10-11-2009 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
I did not specialize technologies and I think information technologies (internet, computers, iphones, etc.) are a huge contributor.
Explain how
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10-11-2009 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
Explain how
More and easily available information increases education/knowledge. And more education/knowledge is a very very strong factor against religion.
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10-11-2009 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
I never said it wasn't a contribution to the fall of religion in the US. It surely doesn't provide any combating forces, but it is not the most potent reason.

You think because high school and collegiate freshmen take a biology class that teaches evolution their going to become less religious? I really doubt this.

Go ask the average American their knowlege of biology, cosmology, physics, etc. and see how deep it runs. See how much they remember from college and see if it was the cause for them abandoning religion.
hahahahaha errr.... evolution? the big bang? both science 101 concepts that directly contradict tons of stuff in the bible... and this isn't simply high school and collegiate, that **** gets taught in elementary school these days. im not necessarily suggesting that it is turning religious ppl anti-religious, more that during peoples formative years, a larger percentage are being exposed to that stuff and making a semi-conscious choice about where they will stand in regards to religion over the course of their lifetime.

fwiw if I had never been exposed to those 2 huge concepts, among others, there is a MUCH larger chance that I would have ended up religious.
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10-11-2009 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
More and easily available information increases education/knowledge. And more education/knowledge is a very very strong factor against religion.
It also increases an awareness of the variety of religious worldviews out there ( compared to growing up in a protestant social mix), awakening the thought that the one a person was raised around may not have a claim to truth. That weakens the hold since 'something else besides mom's religion' is in the mix now, which can lead to an agnostic stance.
Multiculturalism may be a larger factor than we usually think.
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10-11-2009 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zugzwang83
hahahahaha errr.... evolution? the big bang? both science 101 concepts that directly contradict tons of stuff in the bible... and this isn't simply high school and collegiate, that **** gets taught in elementary school these days. im not necessarily suggesting that it is turning religious ppl anti-religious, more that during peoples formative years, a larger percentage are being exposed to that stuff and making a semi-conscious choice about where they will stand in regards to religion over the course of their lifetime.

fwiw if I had never been exposed to those 2 huge concepts, among others, there is a MUCH larger chance that I would have ended up religious.
I'm not sure what the "hahaha errr.. evolution?" is all about. it really doesn't respond to anything in my post at all.

Evolution and the Big Bang do not contradict the Bible, contrary to some beliefs. The Catholic Church's official stance says that evolution does not contradict that which is written in the Bible. Besides, don't tell me for a second that the average person can explain to you the complexities of evolution and the Big Bang.

Also, you did not acknowlege my claim that the average person's knowlege of biology, physics, etc (anything that might lead to a conclusion about the lack of existence of a god) is limited.

Do you deny my first post, that people are less religious because they are simply distracted? That simply put, 'God is not in the collective conciousness', but matieral things are?
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10-11-2009 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
More and easily available information increases education/knowledge. And more education/knowledge is a very very strong factor against religion.
Read the dumbest generation. People are not utilizing the internet and the plethra of information at the fingertips to better themselves intellectually. They're wasting their time on stupid internet games, myspace, and so forth.

My whole point is that people are not as sophisticated as they seem or as they should be.
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10-11-2009 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
I'm not sure what the "hahaha errr.. evolution?" is all about. it really doesn't respond to anything in my post at all.

Evolution and the Big Bang do not contradict the Bible, contrary to some beliefs. The Catholic Church's official stance says that evolution does not contradict that which is written in the Bible. Besides, don't tell me for a second that the average person can explain to you the complexities of evolution and the Big Bang.

Also, you did not acknowlege my claim that the average person's knowlege of biology, physics, etc (anything that might lead to a conclusion about the lack of existence of a god) is limited.

Do you deny my first post, that people are less religious because they are simply distracted? That simply put, 'God is not in the collective conciousness', but matieral things are?
I know plenty of christians who do not believe in evolution. Like, they literally, do not believe it happened, in any way shape or form. I can't tell you how many times I have heard "If we evolved from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys in the world?" Same goes for the big bang, I know TONS of christians who do not believe it actually happened, and think that earth has always just been here. I don't know a single atheist that refutes either of those points.

When comparing the average persons knowledge being limited, keep in mind we are looking at different generations here. As in, ppl who took a science class 30 years ago vs someone currently taking one. Once out of school, most people lose any incentive to learn about that stuff. Which is why you have old people that hold such ******ed beliefs. This is acknowledged in my first paragraph. Those 2 phenomena alone are a good starting point, and it isn't going to take you very long to find others.

I don't know what "educated" people you are referring to who can't describe evolution or the big bang with 90% accuracy, but I hold the position that if they can't comprehend 2 seemingly simple topics, they should not be considered educated to begin with. Again, these are not 2 concepts on the level of general relativity, they are science 101.

The simply being distracted argument doesn't hold much water. Especially when, as Eddi pointed out, those distractions are what makes learning about stuff so much easier.
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10-11-2009 , 05:27 PM
The public perception of religious belief in the US seems to go in cycles historically. Currently the religious right has taken over the Republican Party and makes it appear that people are more religious than ever. On the other hand more atheists than ever are out of the closet, and in fact it appears that a larger percentage of the population is atheistic than ever.

So it's hard to tell, at least for me. My personal experience suggests that there is a slight change away from knee-jerk religion in the US, but belief in personal gods and things that go bump in the night is still very much in evidence.
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10-11-2009 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddi
More and easily available information increases education/knowledge. And more education/knowledge is a very very strong factor against religion.
Care to substantiate this?
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10-11-2009 , 09:37 PM
non religious is something like 16%
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10-12-2009 , 03:32 PM
How are evolution and the big bang simple topics? I hope God is real just cause someone needs to put arrogant pricks like you in there place (hell hopefully)
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10-13-2009 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alewis21
Do you deny my first post, that people are less religious because they are simply distracted? That simply put, 'God is not in the collective conciousness', but matieral things are?
So the reason im not religious is because im distracted by all the shiny toys. And i thought it was because i opened the biblical toy box. Who knew.
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10-13-2009 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
So the reason im not religious is because im distracted by all the shiny toys. And i thought it was because i opened the biblical toy box. Who knew.
I'm not talking about you or any of the atheists on here with a mind.

Nm I'm done here.
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